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Why you don't need a capacitor.

6.3K views 42 replies 11 participants last post by  Blueescortproject  
#1 ·
Check this link out...
http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/showthread.php?t=17919

Stumbled upon it while doing some research and it really informed me. So as soon as I get a chance to get to my local stereo shop (25-30ish miles away) to get some spade connectors I will be removing my cap and throwing it in the trash can.

Let me know what ya think about it.
 
#6 ·
i have been doing car audio for 12 years. i had a cap in my first car. an a crappy battery. mind you i was 18. it didn't help the problem it just made the problem happen a few seconds later. caps are crap. a solid battery or batteries with a strong alternator are the way to do it right and there is no other way to do it.


NEUMAN
 
#7 ·
I respect you've been in the industry for a long time, but you can't deny that caps DO help. There NOT like another battery, you put them into your stereo wheres theres usually music played which will have peaks of high demand, I.E. big, hard hitting bass notes, and when the demand for instant power is too great for the battery, the cap kicks in. Result, the note is still played, and theres no strain on an alternator to recharge a dying battery. More batteries or a bigger alternator maybe another way to go, but its expensive and unpractical
 
#8 ·
Escort94GT said:
More batteries or a bigger alternator maybe another way to go, but its expensive and unpractical
you get what you pay for. thats all i got to say.

factory replacement battery = 65-80 dollars
+
crappy cap off ebay = 40 shipped
=
105-120 dollars

red top optima or equal = 120 dollars
yellow top optima or equal = 170 dollars

so your going to tell me its nto worth it? your going to go thru atleast one battery before you buy a cap or figure out what your doing wrong generally. so why replace when you can upgrade for a few bucks more and have it done right.

NEUMAN
 
#9 ·
why are you buying a crappy capacitor off ebay? ebay's a horrible way to go for audio components. Like you said, spend some actual money on a decent cap and you'll get what you want. I've seen guys spend over 250 dollars on a capacitor, and gotten amazing results. Instead of looking at no name brands, maybea you should look into Monster, Tsunami, or maybe even Iconnect.
 
#11 ·
Escort94GT said:
why are you buying a crappy capacitor off ebay? ebay's a horrible way to go for audio components. Like you said, spend some actual money on a decent cap and you'll get what you want. I've seen guys spend over 250 dollars on a capacitor, and gotten amazing results. Instead of looking at no name brands, maybea you should look into Monster, Tsunami, or maybe even Iconnect.
Monster is not exactly a "decent" brand. They advertise pretty well, though, don't they? ;)

My question to you is.... why would you spend almost twice on a capacitor that you would spend on a battery that would enable you to not need a capacitor?

Admit it. You like the blinking lights.
 
#12 ·
white-lightning said:
Optima Yellow= $160. That was money well spent, nuff said. I have no need for a cap. A cap will only help on one hit then it recharges itself and takes power away from every thing else in that time period.
-Because it isn't just one note on a cd that needs that instant power, we've all heard music that had several hard hits, sometimes one after the other in fast succession.

-Caps charge just about as quickly as it discharges, so it really doesnt put any strain on your electrical system. Thats what their designed to do

-And yes a good quality battery can provide good power to your stereo and may sound good, but unless it can get that power out fast enough, on those hard hits your missing sound and hurting your charging system.
 
#13 ·
The charging system still has to charge the cap... there's really no difference. A strong battery, and upgrading "The Big 3" will do far more than a cap ever will, and for cheaper.

Like i said... caps are used because of pushy salespeople, advertising, and pretty lights.
 
#14 ·
i never said i bought a cap off ebay. i was telling you what way to many people with internet access do end up doing.

you are not seeing my point here. i don't run a cap nore will i ever again. the last cap i had was a BatCap400. its half cap half battery. infact they say you can use it as a battery if you want. but even then i had a soild alternator a yellow top equal and 2ga running everything.

cap or not your going to need system upgrades to handle large power useage. just don't waste your money on a cap when you could buy an after market alternator for 250 bucks. my buddy just bought a 170 amp for his mx3 for less then that.

Like i said... caps are used because of pushy salespeople, advertising, and pretty lights.
hurray for blinking volt gauges!

NEUMAN
 
#15 ·
I dont think you see my point either.. I didnt mean you NEED to have a capacitor, i merely want to point out that Capacitors are indeed a worthwhile investment.

Yes you need to have a decent battery and alternator to provide good power to the stereo, but adding a cap will help save those components

An example is on bigger subwoofer setup, when driving at night some people notice their lights will start dimming to the music. That is because the stereo's sucking up too much power for the battery to handle, so it starts taking it out of the rest of the electrical system.

A good capacitor properly installed will stop this, because it stored energy, then releases it when the battery can no longer handle the drain, I.E. on those BIG heavy bass notes.

And as soon as the note is played, the cap recharges in an instant, and is ready for the next hit
 
#16 ·
i see your point you think that a capacitor is going to solve the issue. its only going to bandaid it. the wasted money on a worthwhile investment as you seem to think it is can be flipped twords a solid battery or alternator upgrade. that will properly solve the issue at hand.

if you have a good battery and a good alternator there is no need for a cap.

i know big systems. an i know that all the big ones aren't running caps! find me a true SPL guy running a cap. they don't they all run multiple batteries and high output alternators.

a cap can only store the energy it is provided. if your battery drops to 12 the cap isn't going to hop to 14 some how.

so in closing if you think a cap is going to do anything but look cool don't exceed 88mph.


NEUMAN
 
#17 ·
Neuman, the reason you dont see caps in BIG systems is because there not looking for clarity in notes, there more looking for db's, as i understand.

Caps i've noticed work best in day to day stereo's. All the way from a self installed sub setup to a professionally installed boomer, but not crazy comp stuff, because your running constant power most of the time, short spikes of power.

It seems you think a capacitor is supposed to send a charge to the battery when it drops below 12 volts to help with the power loss. Look into caps, thats not what their designed to do. They cover the Peak powers advertised on audio amp and sub boxes.
 
#18 ·
Escort94GT said:
Neuman, the reason you dont see caps in BIG systems is because there not looking for clarity in notes, there more looking for db's, as i understand.

Caps i've noticed work best in day to day stereo's. All the way from a self installed sub setup to a professionally installed boomer, but not crazy comp stuff, because your running constant power most of the time, short spikes of power.

It seems you think a capacitor is supposed to send a charge to the battery when it drops below 12 volts to help with the power loss. Look into caps, thats not what their designed to do. They cover the Peak powers advertised on audio amp and sub boxes.
That's not what caps do, either....

Neuman knows what caps do.
 
#20 ·
Escort94GT said:
So tell me what caps do. Prove me wrong instead of just telling me im wrong.
really simple

you cant charge something that doesn't have the power source to charge it. so after that first hard hit your done. game over. that second note is only going to dim your lights. your charging system will not have time to rebuild itself if you don't have a proper battery to do the work in the first place. so your system is only as good as your weakest link. just like everything else in the car world.

NEUMAN
 
#21 ·
True, but obviously you dont know how capacitors really work then.

First of all, they dont FULLY discharge with every hit, they only lose a small bit of their full power. Also, they are built to charge just as fast as they disharged, so as soon as power is taken from in within a split second they are recharged from the battery and ready to hit the second note.

My proof to you is in an amplifier. Take apart any good quality amplifier, or even google it look at the insides, and notice what the amps have in them.
What im saying is yes you do need a good battery if your running a high end stereo, but to get the clarity and power that can put you above the other guy.
 
#22 ·
How fast a cap charges has nothing to do with the cap, though. If your charging system isn't up to charging that cap instantly while playing music at the same time, it won't.

So you run a better battery and an alternator, and THEN the cap might charge faster. But at that point, what's the point of the caps.

Caps IN amps serve a bit of a difference purpose than a cap BEFORE the amp.

As clarification, i'm not saying that they're completely worthless. Just that i don't see the point of spending more money for a bandaid fix than just fixing the problem at the source.
 
#23 ·
your not getting the point still.

if your alternator is only able to charge your electrical system to 11.5 volts because the battery lacks the holding power. a cap is only going to get the same 11.5 volts. so a cap is pointless.

perfect example is my neighbor. i did a system for him. all i did was the deck and trunk work. he had ran the wires and rca's. go to fire it all up sounds great at low volume. once i started turning it up and tuning it started cutting out. i said i thought you put your yellow top in. nope stock honda half size! so a few days later against my suggestions he pays 90 bucks for a 1 farad digital volt meter topped cap. im like WTF! ok so i start tuning it again and the same thing happens about 4 volume clicks higher for the first couple notes it was ok. i told him im not touching your car until you get a battery. so he went down next payday and purchased a stinger dry cell. popped it in and i finished what i started.

so don't tell me i don't know what im doing. an i don't know how things work. i may not know the exact science behind everything. but i know that a proper charging system you will not need a cap for any stereo. i don't see how a cap is going to make yro system "cleaner" since a cap plays no factor in your ariginal source of signal.

you can compare cap in amps to caps for your power system. two different worlds. yes i look at ampguts all the time.

so just a question i see your an "installer" in your profile whats that mean? also what kind of equipment you you run or own?


NEUMAN
 
#24 ·
My apologies, i didnt mean to accuse you of not knowing what your doing. You sound like a very good installer that does know alot about car audio, and having seen your work I am impressed with your custom work.

Im just trying to prove a point that capacitors aren't junk. No there not supposed to FIX a problem, there more of a helping hand to your stereo setup.

Installer, means im dealing with all sorts of 12 volt systems, and im paid to put them into customers cars, like at a best buy or future shop. Only difference is where i work we do much more quality work. Remote starters, Stereo's, Alarms, Accessories, anything thats 12volt powered im trained to deal with on a proffessional level.

Here's my stereo setup:

H/U-Kenwood DDX7015
Subwoofers-2 Boston 10" G2's (Prefab box)
Front Speakers- Kenwood XRS17P Components
Rear Speakers- Boston Mids (Cheapies)
Sub Amp-Rockford Fosgate T300-2
Speakers Amp-Rockford Fosgate T400-4
Capacitor-Iconnect Cap(Came with a Wiring kit i installed, customer didnt want it so gave it to me)

All ran with Monster Flux Core wiring and Monster RCA's

What Capacitor did your neighbour buy?
 
#25 ·
ok what i was getting at is to many people use them as a fix all. as did i when i was younger. time and experience has shown me that they are not that. i will admit that caps do have there place. but too many people use them to fix. they are going to help that .1 or .2 volt drop to keep everything level. but if your slamming it like we where talking about early on. no dice. just won't cut it.

so you work at a shop that is good.

your set-up seems nice also. tho i would drop the rear fill. if the components are powered correctly (which it seems like they are) there is no need for them.

i can't remember off the top of my head what brand his cap was. but he just got rid of his integra for a s10 extreme. so im sure later today he is going to ask me if i would do a system in that with his old equipment. at which point im sure he will want me to install the cap. granted i will because its what the customer wants not the installer 95% of the time.

thanks for the props on my installs. where all did you see them? an which ones?


NEUMAN
 
#26 ·
Ok i agree, caps as a fix all, bad idea. Case settled :p

Well the reason i have the bostons in the rear is for kindof an echo effect, Like at a concert when the music bounces off the back wall. I have it faded towards the front so 90% of the sound you hear is from the components, and a tiny bit from the rear, you really dont notice it though, hence there only cheapies.

I only really saw what youve posted around feoa, good custom work. There are small details i would change on some of them, but thats just my personal preference. Very nice work.