Use a 2.0L 5 speed on a 1.9 engine? | Ford Escort Owners Association (FEOA)
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Use a 2.0L 5 speed on a 1.9 engine?

Discussion in 'Drivetrains' started by Rex, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. Rex

    Rex New Member

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    Bill and I are still working on this transmission issue and we can't seem to positively ID the year we have. Forum has been thoroughly searched and nothing definitive concluded.

    Question: I have a 1.9 engine and am using a 1.9 manual transmission. Can I just drop in a 2.0 transmission and use the same flywheel/clutch?

    Question: I have a 2.0L SPI SOHC engine and am using a 1.9 Transmission and flywheel/clutch. Can I just swap out the transmission for a 97 2.0L one with no other changes?

    Any issues with bolt-up, mounts, linkage? Not concerned about speedo or electrical connectors ... just FINAL gearing to the axles.

    Thanks
  2. therieldeal

    therieldeal FEOA Member

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    you need to match the clutch and flywheel and axles to the transmission you are using. 1.9 used a mazda f series, the 2.0 used a mazda g series. the g is stronger/heavier/better than the f, and uses different parts.
  3. Rex

    Rex New Member

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    OK ... can you tell me the differences between the two so I can ID what we have here?

    So we need to use the 2.0 flywheel/clutch. What is the reason (other than strength) and is this necessary (not concerned with desirable)

    What is the difference in the axles other than the length. I am not concerned with strength, etc. Just mechanical fit.

    Primary issue are with bolt-up, mounts, linkage? and FINAL gearing to the axles.

    Thanks
  4. therieldeal

    therieldeal FEOA Member

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    Count the number of inboard splines on the CV axles. A 1.9 trans will have 24, a 2.0 will have 26.

    The 1.9 clutch sucks first of all, its tiny. The other issue is the spline count on the input shaft. I think 1.9 is 20 and 2.0 is 22, but I don’t remember for sure.

    Spline count is different as I mentioned. Length is the same.

    I don’t know the ratios for the 1.9 tranny, but here are the ratios for the 2.0 (I run the guts from one of these trannys in my car)

    3.85 final
    3.31 1st
    1.83 2nd
    1.23 3rd
    .914 4th
    .717 5th

    You can interchange gears from lots of other mazda/ford/kia trannies if you need different ratios. I can give you hand with interchangability if needed.

    The mounts themselves should be the same if its going in an escort... you just need the mount brackets to match the tranny. I have no idea how it mounts in your race car so I cant tell you one way or another.
  5. GregF422

    GregF422 FEOA Member

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    How realistic is it to swap out gears to set your own ratios? What's involved?
  6. therieldeal

    therieldeal FEOA Member

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    the only ratios you can replace are 3 4 5 and the final drive. all fwd g series trannies use the same 1st and 2nd (which is too bad because 1st is too short for me).

    you need a hydraulic press to remove the bearings and gears in order to swap out 3 and 4.

    to switch final drives you need to replace the entire secondary shaft and the ring gear on the differential. there are two versions of the g series transmission over the years, with two different length secondary shafts. the spi is the later (longer) version.

    i really need to take a few hours and do a big g series write up lol
  7. Rex

    Rex New Member

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    Therieldeal ... great reply .. thanks
  8. therieldeal

    therieldeal FEOA Member

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    no problem. i got your PM... i'm at work right now i'll try to get back to you with some detailed info tonight.
  9. 300ZXRB26DETT

    300ZXRB26DETT FEOA Member

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    Please do, that would be an extremely helpful item
  10. bill4123

    bill4123 FEOA Member

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    Thanks for the help with the axle spline counts. It solved this problem. I have two other questions for a different reason though.

    The wheel end of the axles...is there any difference between the 1.9 and 2.0 ends? I am doing a 5-speed swap from a 2.0 into a 2nd gen and want to make sure I don'tneed the 2.0 hubs.

    What prevents swapping 1st and 2nd from the F-series into the G-series?

    Thanks
  11. Dutch

    Dutch Guest

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    therieldeal--
    Hopefully this info will help in your all-inclusive G-series writeup and/or G-series into 2nd gen how-to:

    Considering what I've read about the reverse swap (2.0L motor into 1.9L trans) and the parts that need to be swapped with it, my guess would be you'd need these to put a later trans in a 1.9:

    * 2.0 flywheel
    * 2.0 clutch
    * 2.0 starter
    * 2.0 axles

    I'm considering the same swap too, but if circumstance allows, I may just find a low-mileage wreck and drop the engine/trans/axles/spindles/subframe out and swap 'em all at once. Probably easier to do it all in one foul swoop.... Hopefully I'll be able to find one (and the required $$$$) in time, as my trans is howling a bit.

    HTH!

    C ya,
    Dutch
  12. bill4123

    bill4123 FEOA Member

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    I'm very familiar with the gear ratios. My question was what specifically prevents (if anything) 1st and 2nd from being swapped from the F-series to the G-series. My other question was if there was any difference in the wheel ends of the axles (2nd gen vs. 3rd gen).
  13. Dutch

    Dutch Guest

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    bill4123--
    I was not impugning your familiarity with the gear ratios.

    An "all-encompassing" G-series trans post was suggested, possibly to be composed by therieldeal (hence my addressing him directly at the beginning of my post). I had discussed this swap as a possibility for my car in PM with another member a few weeks ago, in which I'd done this comparison chart, so I thought I'd toss it in the hat for the cause, since many others may not be conversant in the minutae of F-series vs. G-series gear ratios, and it may help them make an educated choice on whether to upgrade or just stick with what they have.... :)

    It also provides the final drive ratios from engine to axle, which, IIRC, Rex mentioned twice up-thread that he was interested in.

    HTH!

    C ya,
    Dutch
  14. bill4123

    bill4123 FEOA Member

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    Here are all of the gear ratios and a bunch more. https://www.feoa.net/modules.php?name=Fo ... ushomatics . The fuel-saver Pony trans is the reason I was asking about 1st and 2nd going into the G-series. I have a G-series trans. The Pony is an F-series.

    The spline count on the wheel end of the G-series axles is 26. I can't count my 1.9 axles unless I take the big nut off which I won't be doing until the swap is underway.
  15. therieldeal

    therieldeal FEOA Member

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    all the spindles are the same, 26 spline.

    the differentials are different, f series is 24 spline, g series is 26 in the escort (28 in most other applications).

    the transmissions are completely different internally.
  16. bill4123

    bill4123 FEOA Member

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    Cool. Thanks.
  17. Dutch

    Dutch Guest

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    More info--now including ZX2 trans ratios and comparisons between all three....

    Code:
     Ratio (F) | DIFF (F) | Tot (F) |  Gear  | Ratio (G) | DIFF (G) | Tot (G) | % Diff
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        3.416  x   3.619  =  12.363 |    1   |    3.307  x   3.850  =  12.732 |  2.98
        1.842  x   3.619  =   6.666 |    2   |    1.833  x   3.850  =   7.057 |  5.87
        1.290  x   3.619  =   4.669 |    3   |    1.233  x   3.850  =   4.747 |  1.67
        0.972  x   3.619  =   3.517 |    4   |    0.914  x   3.850  =   3.519 |  0.05
        0.731  x   3.619  =   2.645 |    5   |    0.717  x   3.850  =   2.760 |  4.35
    
    
     Ratio (F) | DIFF (F) | Tot (F) |  Gear  | Ratio (Z) | DIFF (Z) | Tot (Z) | % Diff
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        3.416  x   3.619  =  12.363 |    1   |    3.307  x   4.100  =  13.559 |  9.67
        1.842  x   3.619  =   6.666 |    2   |    1.833  x   4.100  =   7.515 | 12.73
        1.290  x   3.619  =   4.669 |    3   |    1.310  x   4.100  =   5.371 | 15.04
        0.972  x   3.619  =   3.517 |    4   |    1.030  x   4.100  =   4.223 | 20.07
        0.731  x   3.619  =   2.645 |    5   |    0.795  x   4.100  =   3.260 | 23.25
    
    
     Ratio (G) | DIFF (G) | Tot (G) |  Gear  | Ratio (Z) | DIFF (Z) | Tot (Z) | % Diff
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        3.307  x   3.850  =  12.732 |    1   |    3.307  x   4.100  =  13.559 |  6.50
        1.833  x   3.850  =   7.057 |    2   |    1.833  x   4.100  =   7.515 |  6.49
        1.233  x   3.850  =   4.747 |    3   |    1.310  x   4.100  =   5.371 | 13.15
        0.914  x   3.850  =   3.519 |    4   |    1.030  x   4.100  =   4.223 | 20.01
        0.717  x   3.850  =   2.760 |    5   |    0.795  x   4.100  =   3.260 | 18.12
    
    
    HTH!

    C ya,
    Dutch
  18. 95EscortDriver

    95EscortDriver FEOA Member

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    So, use the 2.0L Axles too, right? They should fit into the 2nd gen hubs.

    Now, what about the input shft going into the clutch, I know you'll need to use the 2.0 Clutch, PP, and Thowout bearing, as well as the flywheel, but how easy is it to bolt the flywheel up, are they the same bolt pattern? Starter always matches the Flywheel, so 2.0L starter, cool.

    Now the fun part, Is the Bellhousing the same bolt pattern, and does the shifter mount the same way?

    I'm curious in this thread cause the 1.9l Manual trannies are getting getting thin in my area, and everyone leaks bad and has at least 150K mi on them. 2.0L are still rather young, and easy to find with low milage. See, at one time, Aluminum went through the roof in my area, and J/Y's gathered up all their Escorts and sent them to the aluminum scrappers so they can stay afloat during the Gas crunch. I would cry as I saw whole flatbeds 4 Escorts high by 4 Escorts deep go by. All I could think was "I may need a tranny soon, and there ain't gonna be none left!
  19. escortrio

    escortrio FEOA Donator

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    2.0 axles, clutch kit aka throw out bearing, pilot bearing , pressure plate, clutch, alignment tool, also the fork. starter, flywhel and slave cylinder but the slave should stay on tranny that you get along with the fork, as least usually.

    swap the front and rear mounts unless you wanna the 2.0 ones then crossmember also but il say its not worth it to use the 2.0 one. otherwise you'd have to flip the shifter bar upside down to gain clearance on the rear mount. just dont do it.

    the flywheels bolt up the same you wouldnt notice as far as bolting it up goes and the bellhousing il just say putting it in you will definetly notice as a bit less room to grab with your right hand. other then that you wont beable to use one of the bottom bolts that hooks to the oil pan unless u wanted to swap the pans. its works fine either way. the rest hooks up fine axles are a bit harder to pop out but worth it in all, hopefully u wont have to pop them back out though. could just be me though

    if its leaking the output shaft seals are easy to fix just pull it out with a screw driver and put the new one in with a rubber mallet as even as u can.

    i broke my record last week with 45mpg, been a long time. been staying at 35-37 for about 6 months on the 91 im driving. i think its the swap but i could be wrong, either way its worth it.
  20. 95EscortDriver

    95EscortDriver FEOA Member

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    nope. all the trannies I go through leak around where the shifter goes in. Funny, now that I've cracked one open. I don't see any physical way for it to leak, short of it wearing the shifting shaft.

    NE who, it's already a tight squeze to get the 1.9 tranny in there, subframe comes out quite a bit more than my old 91 Escort. You say use the axles, okay... So I'll be looking for a parts 97-02 Escort 2.0L SPI 5-speed. Too much to just get separate.

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