[siragan]

I´ve got a 91 GT. I drove it last night, ran fine.

I go up to it this morning after sitting in an ice storm overnight and I clear off the ice and put the key in the ignition. I leave it in the "on" setting for a second to let the fuel pump run. then I move the key to the "start" notch (where the engine normally turns) and I hear the most dreaded thing you could possibly hear:

silence.

Well, not quite. The engine doesn´t turn, but I can hear a relay on the passenger´s side of the ECU clicking when I put it in the start notch, so apparently the car knows that I want it to start, however, there is absolutely NO sign of life from the starter.

1. The battery is good, lights still work, I didn´t accidentally discharge it overnight.
2. Starter is (I think) good. Just replaced recently.

3. Engine doesn´t turn, but relay on the passengers side of the ECU clicks when I put it in "start" position.

WHAT THE SHIT AM I GONNA DO?!

 

[James92Scort]

All I can think of is the starter. It´s either frozen solid or it´s screwed. if you just had it replaced, then the shop sold you a piece of shit starter.

 

[FourDiceS]

slam your clutch in the best you can...

it happened to me last week

[ This message was edited by: FourDiceS04 on 23-02-2003 16:10 ]

 

[91scortgtboy]

Starter. The same thing happened on my explorer and all i herd was the same electrical relay you hear.

 

[DemonicEGT]

is your ECU throwing a code?

 

[siragan]

Where would I detect the code my ECU was throwing, assuming it was throwing a code?

My mom´s taurus had this same problem. I heard a relay click sound, and I could hear this "squishing" soung comingfrom round the fuel rail. I was assuming it was the fuel going through to the injectors or something...

I too think it´s the starter. I´m planning on going out there and trying to jump start it, because that´s what my dad wants to do, even though that probably wont work, but he´s convinced it will work. Sad.

Anyway, where can I get a QUALITY starter, how much would it cost, and how difficult is it to replace?

 

[James92Scort]

in my experience of shopping around for a starter you can get a rebuilt one anywhere from 100 to 300 bucks.

 

[siragan]

Okay, here´s the deal.
I took my LX out to the dead GT and jump-started it. It worked.

I then drove the GT for about a half an hour and then shut it off at my place. Then I waited about 30 seconds, and tried to start it up again, without jump-starting it. It did the same thing that it did out in the parking lot, no turnover of the engine, the click of the relay down by the ECU.

So I figured that the starter is obviously good, because it works fine on a jump start, so I have narrowed it down to two things:

1. Dead battery/ battery can´t hold a charge
2. Dead alternator/ alternator can´t charge battery.

However, if the alternator were dead, wouldn´t the can just not run? Because the alternator runs the ignition system, the lights, etc, and I was using both the lights and obviously the ignition system on the way home, and it worked normally.

Can somebody point me in the right direction?

 

[Beaverboy]

Check and clean the battery cables (with everything on the car turned off). It´s very easy for the cable ends to lose their contact enough so that everything seems to work fine (radio, lights, etc) but not enough so that the starter can crank.

 

[TheBlade]

hmmm..that´s also the same symptoms when a fuel pump dies

Well takes 4 things to run

Fuel, Air, Spark, Compression.

Check spark...just pull a wire off and hold it to the chassis when someone tries to crank it for ya...if you see the spark, move on.

air could be it...if the VAF doesn´t think you´re getting any air, you wont start. Same with getting a crank on the hosing, it will cause a leak preventing starting.

Compression, most people dont have a tester, but you can rent one, test for compression...my GT runs about 155-165 in each cylinder

And fuel...pump, filter (make sure theres no leak in the tank), or fuel pressure could be gone.

 

[siragan]

Jason,
everything you said is fine and dandy... but what I´m trying to say here is that ALL of the bad symptoms go away as soon as I jump-start with a good, solid battery.

I´m getting fuel/air/spark/compression just fine, just no power to crank the starter and turn the engine, so I figure that either my battery can not hold charge (which is what I think) or my alternator can´t supply charging to the battery.

ODD THING:
The previous night, the car started up with no hesitation or problems. Then I just drove in to town, parked my car, and the next afternoon when I try to start it up, it gives me this shit. What gives?

 

[93scortluv]

I do know for sure that it will run on the battery by its self. I killed my alternator and kept chargin the battery up. it runs for about 2hr or so without the getting down into the floor rutine.. If the battery died then the car dies, I got proof this happend. 4 people in the car with me. (ever push a scort 8 miles to your house.. try that.. just charge it and let it run dead. then when ya can replace the alt and the battery

 

[siragan]

sportscort- put that into english please.

please speak coherently because I can´t make sense of your words, but I´m interested in what you have to say.

 

[93scortluv]

once the alternator dies the car will run off of the battery for a while. and once it goes dead just recharge it. I did this for 2 days and it ran fine, unitl the battery pooped out. then I had to have it towed home.. so you can do that for ever if you wanted too. mine had died and that was my last resort with 4 people in the car for those 2 days.

dont run radio, lights. wipers. Pull the fuse on the brake lights. and use hand signals when turning it will give you a little longer to run it to the shop if you had too.

 

[FourDiceS]

try charging the battery and then try to start it and see what happens

 

[siragan]

Thanks for clearing that up, sportscort. I´ll check the alternator output voltage tommorrow and see whats going on.

However, lets say the battery is dead, but the alternator is good... could all the electronics in the car work, WHILE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING, even without battery support?

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23-02-2003 at 22:56, FourDiceS04 wrote:
try charging the battery and then try to start it and see what happens

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I dont have a battery charger. Even if I were to charge it, I think that it would somehow leak charge and die after a few weeks... I dunno. It seemed like it lost all of its charge so suddenly.

 

[nukewater]

i had the same problem the day i installed my new pedals... i had to/stilll have to crush the clutch into the floor to start it because it has to be in a certain distance to start.. it made similar symptoms, but maybe not.. just a sugestion

 

[siragan]

clutch sensor isn´t the problem.

 

[siragan]

Had the battery tested... first I tested it with a voltmeter and it was right around 14.5-15V. Then I brought it to a local shop and they tested to see if it holded charge, which it did. Then I brough the battery back home, plopped it in the bay, and then hooked it up and tried to start it up. It started up fine.

Argh!

There must be a loose connection or something. I´m wondering if putting in that RX-7 VAF fuxxored anything up... because from what I hear, if the vane is completely closed, the car won´t even attempt to startup because it feels like it isn´t getting any air... ahem.

I haven´t done any adjustments to the VAF, but I moved it open 5 clicks when I got it. Reason why I can´t adjust the VAF is because I don´t have a working o2 sensor, so I can´t tell if my VAF adjustments are rich/lean etc.

 

[Beaverboy]

I´m serious about the battery cable thing. It´s happened to me quite a few times on my Subaru. I go to start her up and she just clicks at me. The radio works, the headlights work, everything seems to work, but she won´t crank. I pop the hood, wiggle the cables and she starts right up. The clamps are mostly tight on the posts, but not tight enough. I finally replaced the clamps and it hasn´t happened since.