FEOA Forums banner
1 - 20 of 71 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hmm...after reading MCs post I got even more confused, I got the t3 sitting in my room along with a custom manifold that bolts right up to the SPI but there are still some questions in my head I need some answers desperately, ERDT was the reason why I have modified my ride and it now this forum shall be the reason for me to turbo my car, that IS IF I GET ALL THE ANSWERS:

1) I thought the FMU was a digital device, in MCs post it seems like a mechanical devise, tell me once and for all...when running about 5 PSI of boost will I need FMU?? I am trying to find a cheaper way turbo my car any parts I don't really need will save my wallet.

2) Oil question: I know I have to tap the oil pan for the oil return but what about the oil feed? Where the hell am I supposed to get that from and how? (please don't go..."from the back of the block" WHERE EXACTLY?) and how... T-tap it with a valve from homedepot? :lol:

3) Where would I connect the water lines? Where do I get the water feed line and where do I have to tap for the water return? HOw much pressure is needed for the water?

4) After connecting the turbo how would I know how much boost it puts out? (any kind of sensor/gauge?) If yes where would I have to connect it?
My turbo has an internal wastegate set at 6 PSI but the rod itself has no spring or any setup that you could modify, I cannot take the actuator houseing appart where the spring sits at, how would I modify the boost level?

5) Megasquirt is the most complicated thing I have ever seen ... I HATE MATH AND I WOULD NEVER PAY MONEY TO TYPE IN EQUATIONS ON MY LAPTOP to adjust fuel curves etc., I usually pay ppl to do that but since MS is something you have do on your own...forgetaboutit. I'd rather spent 2000 bucks on a standalone (if I had the money) than to fight around with this "new" system.

Again I would like to run low boost with an IC but engine management is something I'd like to stay away from for now but later when funds allow me I'd get something decent regarding FMU etc. To sum it all up: IS 5 PSI of boost ok on a stock engine? or will I have problems? How much HP gain would I expect for such a setup?

Any comments would be greatly appericated.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,421 Posts
1) A FMU is a machanical device the is piped into the return fuel line to increase the fuel pressure with boost. Only works on 97 and older.

2) See my cardomain for pic's and info.

3) Dont need to worry about that yet.

4) Boost gauge.
To lower the boost you'll need to modifly the waste gate rod it's self. See my cardomain for more into.

5) MS is a stand alone. If you keep the boost below 6psi the FMU will be all that you need, besides higher actane and colder plugs.

You must run some kind of engine managment, a FMU is the simplest form, but dont exspect to make much power with just that. You can get them for about $99.

With 6psi going through a auto you'll gain about 40-45whp, so you'll have about ~135whp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,662 Posts
^^ Mr. Turbo has spoken.


If you don't want the complexity of standalone then get a custom chip made and a MAF and injectors to go with it. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
yep, after reading every book on turbo'ing engine and fuel injection, I'd have to say that for the money, MAF, Injectors, & a Chip is the way to go, I just got done calculating that properly set, one could hit perhaps up to 15psi boost "MIC'ing" it on a 2.0L SPI with the 9(?):1 compression ratio....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Americanzer0 said:
yep, after reading every book on turbo'ing engine and fuel injection, I'd have to say that for the money, MAF, Injectors, & a Chip is the way to go, I just got done calculating that properly set, one could hit perhaps up to 15psi boost "MIC'ing" it on a 2.0L SPI with the 9(?):1 compression ratio....
One thing I've learned after reading all the info about turbocharging a car on the intenet, is that no matter how fancy your standalone system is, no matter how big your injectors, MAF etc etc....without the proper engine internals you could be blowing up your engine just like that! Especially our SPI with their CVH designs (sorry if I sound harsh) but most ppl I met said that our engines are junk and you should be happy it will get you passed 100K on the odometer, let alone putting pressure on the engine. Running more boost with stock internals will just put you at a higher risk of engine damage no matter if you have the most perfect AIR/FUEL ratio. What we need are aluminum forged pistons without piston rings or a similar setup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
795 Posts
mobman wrote:
One thing I've learned after reading all the info about turbocharging a car on the intenet, is that no matter how fancy your standalone system is, no matter how big your injectors, MAF etc etc....without the proper engine internals you could be blowing up your engine just like that! Especially our SPI with their CVH designs (sorry if I sound harsh) but most ppl I met said that our engines are junk and you should be happy it will get you passed 100K on the odometer, let alone putting pressure on the engine. Running more boost with stock internals will just put you at a higher risk of engine damage no matter if you have the most perfect AIR/FUEL ratio. What we need are aluminum forged pistons without piston rings or a similar setup.
I would say your wrong and alittle right. Yes running boost, nitrous, etc. ON a stock motor is ruff on it. And yea mabye the escort motor are alittle on the weak side. But not as weak as you have been told. If being on erdt and feoa has taught me one thing. 90% of it is all in the engine management. Low boost on a 1.9 isnt going to hurt it. Nor is shooting a 50 shot of nitrous. It's when you start to want more and more boost,nitrous. Is when you should start to what to go into the motor. Some people dont have the money that some of that stuff takes. And some people just dont want to. Why just spend $500 on custom pistons. When you can buy another spi for $250. Boost intill it blows up(if it does)and then buy another one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
301 Posts
Something I used to believe was that if you were boosting, you absolutely needed to used forged internal, beef everything up and rebuild the engine.

Reading what some of the other people have put up here and their experiences plus some other makes and model turboing posts on other forums, stock engine components are quite hardy across the board and can take small amounts of boost without the need for uber expensive pistons, rods et al.

While some people argue that you need these and you need to change your compression ratios and run large amounts of boost to see any worthwhile gains, one must remember that there is always more then one way to do things. If you have the know-how and ambition, experiment and find out what works best for you. Some people have really good experience with one product or one way of doing things while other's don't. The current debate between MS and other Fuel management systems should be a good indicator of that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,177 Posts
an engine is a system. A FI engine is a more complex system, by far. It takes a fine balance to make things work well. If anything becomes unbalanced, the whole system crashes, regardless of how tough the other parts are, it only takes one of them to fail to ruin the whole thing. That part could be management, fuel, or parts.

For example: Alot of people blame cast pistons for exploding, or breaking. The reason they break 9 times out of 10 is because of improper management, or trying to force them to do a job they werent designed to do... you wouldn't try to screw a screw in with a hammer, so why would you try to run an FI engine without proper mangement or parts?

Stock internals are built with a lifespan. When you change power levels, you shorten that lifespan. Sometimes you shorten it by a few thousand miles, sometimes you shorten it to wednesday of next week. It all depends on what power levels you want to run, how long you want to run it for, and how you want to achieve it.

There are RB26DETT skyline motors that make over 2000 HP. Their lifespans aren't measured in miles, or even hours, they're measured in minutes :wink:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,421 Posts
mobman said:
One thing I've learned after reading all the info about turbocharging a car on the intenet, is that no matter how fancy your standalone system is, no matter how big your injectors, MAF etc etc....without the proper engine internals you could be blowing up your engine just like that! Especially our SPI with their CVH designs (sorry if I sound harsh) but most ppl I met said that our engines are junk and you should be happy it will get you passed 100K on the odometer, let alone putting pressure on the engine. Running more boost with stock internals will just put you at a higher risk of engine damage no matter if you have the most perfect AIR/FUEL ratio. What we need are aluminum forged pistons without piston rings or a similar setup.
Wow holy crap! Stop reading what ever it is your reading because it's 100% back ass wards!!!

You can spend $10,000 on super duper strong forged internals, but yet completely destroy it in minuets with 5 psi from a bad tune.
Or you could grab a old used up stock motor from the junk yard with high miles and run 12psi on it all day with no problems as long as it has the right tune.

The stock CVH seem's to be just as strong, if not stronger then the average small displacement I4. I have a feeling the ppl that are telling you there junk have'nt got a clue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Jeffescortlx said:
mobman said:
One thing I've learned after reading all the info about turbocharging a car on the intenet, is that no matter how fancy your standalone system is, no matter how big your injectors, MAF etc etc....without the proper engine internals you could be blowing up your engine just like that! Especially our SPI with their CVH designs (sorry if I sound harsh) but most ppl I met said that our engines are junk and you should be happy it will get you passed 100K on the odometer, let alone putting pressure on the engine. Running more boost with stock internals will just put you at a higher risk of engine damage no matter if you have the most perfect AIR/FUEL ratio. What we need are aluminum forged pistons without piston rings or a similar setup.
Wow holy crap! Stop reading what ever it is your reading because it's 100% back **** wards!!!

You can spend $10,000 on super duper strong forged internals, but yet completely destroy it in minuets with 5 psi from a bad tune.
Or you could grab a old used up stock motor from the junk yard with high miles and run 12psi on it all day with no problems as long as it has the right tune.

The stock CVH seem's to be just as strong, if not stronger then the average small displacement I4. I have a feeling the ppl that are telling you there junk have'nt got a clue.
Ya of course you would destroy an engine with super duper strong internals with a bad tune up but if you put a stock engine vs an internally modified engine to the test of how much boost it will take under good management, the stock engine may blow sooner. Fact is however, that we all have to sacrifice something to get something in return. If you want to turbo an spi which is of course not impossible, you will lose reliablity, fuel economy etc. But if you tell me you can run 12+ PSI SAFELY on a stock SPI engine with a good tune up...that I don't believe until I see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,669 Posts
The CVH is a good solid strong engine. As far as "not being safely reliable when boosted", why wouldn't it be? It's not really different than a lot of other engines with turbos on them.. it's got pistons, and rods, and a crank, and a cam, and valves, just like any other engine, so what's so different about this particular one that makes it inherently unsafe to turbo?

answer is; nothing! Turbo, non-turbo, supercharged, nitrous, whatever... The thing that makes engines unreliable and prone to breakage is almost always the state of tune.

I personally would feel completely comfortable (and have a crapload of fun) running 12+ psi on a stock 1.9 or 2.0 engine, with properly tuned engine management. It's not magic or something, it's just an engine....


--sarge
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,662 Posts
Just for you information, the CVH runs well past the 100k mark. There are several people with 200-300k on the original motor with no rebuilds yet!!! It's just that pesky head gasket that seems to be required maintence at 100k mi intervals.

I have no doubt that a CVH will take 12psi with a good tune. In fact I plan on doing it at some point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
drivinonthinice said:
Just for you information, the CVH runs well past the 100k mark. There are several people with 200-300k on the original motor with no rebuilds yet!!! It's just that pesky head gasket that seems to be required maintence at 100k mi intervals.

I have no doubt that a CVH will take 12psi with a good tune. In fact I plan on doing it at some point.
I've got 107 K and the engine seems to be running pretty strong, I never had to change anything not even the head gasket except for my battery. I just said what people assume about our engines. But again...12 PSI is a crap load of boost to be put on a stock engine, and seeing it from my perspective, I have an ATX, even if my engine can take the 12 PSI with good management, my tranny will not thatswhy I am still skeptical about turboing my car because its a daily driver not a dragster or strict racing car.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
39,324 Posts
drivinonthinice said:
I have no doubt that a CVH will take 12psi with a good tune. In fact I plan on doing it at some point.
ya...12 psi with some crazy way of dealing with the timing.. at 15psi, my spark angle is arround 45-50* BTDC
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,421 Posts
mobman said:
But if you tell me you can run 12+ PSI SAFELY on a stock SPI engine with a good tune up...that I don't believe until I see.
OK, I ran 20psi on the dyno with a stock 1.9 block with 90k and a stock SPI head with 116k, it did'nt blow up. Is that enough proof for you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Jeffescortlx said:
mobman said:
But if you tell me you can run 12+ PSI SAFELY on a stock SPI engine with a good tune up...that I don't believe until I see.
OK, I ran 20psi on the dyno with a stock 1.9 block with 90k and a stock SPI head with 116k, it did'nt blow up. Is that enough proof for you?
you lowered the compression cheater :lol:
But whatever you did, I cannot do...I have a bad feeling that I will blow things up, so what I am going to do for now is keep the turbo, do more research, save money for a standalone system and then see what the future brings.

anyways wanted to thank marclar for the enlightening post about comp. ratios...I would've never guessed... but makes perfectly sense.
 
1 - 20 of 71 Posts
Top