TURBO PICS FINALLY!! | Ford Escort Owners Association (FEOA)
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TURBO PICS FINALLY!!

Discussion in 'Photo Forum' started by customescortgt, Oct 10, 2004.

  1. customescortgt

    customescortgt New Member

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    NO finally I got my new engine and my custom BP manifold with a flange bolted on it to accomodate my turbo! well all works well just gotta finish running the oil and coolant lines!

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  2. 98scortspi

    98scortspi Guest

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    mmmmm looks good man can't wait to see it in the car
  3. gt19ho

    gt19ho Guest

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    Yea looks like it going to be fun. Nothing like putting a motor back into the project ride.
  4. Onegimp

    Onegimp New Member

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    I hate to tell you this, but the turbo is to low to the ground. It's not going to feed oil back into the pan so the turbo is going to blow pretty fast.
  5. neuspeedescort

    neuspeedescort Moderator Staff Member

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    good thing denis is here to tell us that! i thought it looked weird all low but never crossed my mind that would be the issue.

    NEUMAN
  6. Onegimp

    Onegimp New Member

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    It was a good idea, but I know for a fact it will not work. Turbo is below the oil pan.
  7. fixitmattman

    fixitmattman New Member

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    Why would the turbo blow? It's just an oil return line you need to feed back to the oil pan :?

    Matt 8)
  8. Josh_LX

    Josh_LX FEOA Member

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    Once it goes throught the turbo, oil gravity feeds back to the pan, acorrding to Newton, gravity makes stuff run downhill. Unfortunately, downhill is not in the direction of his pan, its in the direction of the turbo. The only way this is going to work is if he gets a scavenging sump pump (read $$$) to pump the oil into the pan. On the lingenfelter corvettes, they have no place for the turbos other than beside the oil pan so they use crank driven scavenging pumps to force the oil back into the pan.
  9. Onegimp

    Onegimp New Member

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    Correct, oil drain is gravity feed back into the pan. It must go downwards to the pan. If it goes up in any way it will not flow back to the pan so oil will build up in the turbo while has oil continously feed in. It will cause the seals to blow out and then it will reqiure a rebuild.
  10. fixitmattman

    fixitmattman New Member

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    Thank you for the fine explanation on Gravity :roll:

    There should still be enough pressure after the oil passes the bearings in the turbo to get it to return back to tank. If you plumb the ruturn line just above or at the normal running oil level, you don't need to worry about head pressure generated by oil in the oil pan adding extra resistance to the return line.

    Matt 8)
  11. Onegimp

    Onegimp New Member

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    If you truely believe that, fine don't listen to me. Pressure has nothing to do with return, just feed. Blow a few turbo's if you want while I laugh and say I told you so. If no one want to take my advice, then I will stop giving it, seeing as every one here are experts and know every thing....
  12. jb_cb44

    jb_cb44 Guest

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    I don't know about that placement, seriously if he can't run the return line at least right above the oil resivor line then the oil in the pan is just going to add to the resticton on the return line. Which as previously stated is not good. The way I look at it is the more oil pressure in bearing housing the more likely the seals are going to blow. Oil sitting in the turbo is BAD period. From the limited view given by the side shot of the turbo and block that is going to be very close to get it back in to the oil pan with out being below the oil line.

    But anyway Good luck and have fun.
  13. marclar

    marclar Moderator Staff Member

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    thats not going to work. the drain is too low. trust me.. ive blown ot seals from haveing the same problem. save yourself the trouble of getting a new turbo and re do your manifold. the oil from the turbo should be fed back into the oil pan above the oil level.. if not thne youll have backpressure in the oil systema nd blown out seals.
  14. Josh_LX

    Josh_LX FEOA Member

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    It's obvious by this comment you dont have a clue as to how oiling systems in turbos work.

    turbos use oil as a bearing. The shaft doesnt actually ride on the bronze bearing, it rides on the few molecules of oil between the shaft and bearing. The oil going into the turbo is under pressure, after it passes through the turbo, it is undr NO pressure, at all. It is simply gravity feed. The pressure is converted to mechanical force. The mechanical force is used to keep the shaft from contacting the bearing. If you have ever looked at a turbo, you will notice the feed line is is rounghly 1/2 to 1/4 the size of the return line. Thats because the return line is under no pressure. Under no pressure, you need a significantly larger diameter of tube to move the same volume of fluid that is under pressure. Since all that is moving the oil is gravity, if gravity moves the oil BACK into the turbo, the oil has to go somewhere. Its not going to flow backwards up the pressurized line, and its not going to flow down the return tube because the entire volume of the oil in the oil pan will be preventing that. The only place left for the oil to go will be out the oil seals. To reduce friction, oil seals in turbos are very low tension. It can take as little as 30-40 pounds of oil pressure to blow one out. This pressure will be easily generated by the oil if it has nowhere to go.

    Dennis, I have always found your comments to be useful and generally appropriate. Please continue to issue advice. I looked up to you and Neuman on ERDT and I do here too.

    Matt, You shouldn't critisize someone for telling you something about a topic you obviously know nothing about.
  15. siragan

    siragan Guest

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    You CAN bring the turbo below the height of the oil pan.

    The question is, how much.

    If you really want to do the calculation, you'll need measurement specs of of the turbo and the pressure of oil at the turbo. If you know the properties of the oil you're using, the expected temperature, and the height below the oil pan, then you can calculate the force exerted on the fluid bearings in the shaft of the turbocharger.

    Although this is probably unorthodox, 20 minutes of work on paper could save you several hundred dollars.

    As for fixitmattman, you are under the assumption that the oil system through a turbocharger is a sealed system. As was stated earlier, the shaft in most turbochargers is a fluid bearing, oil being the fluid.

    Personally, what I would do is research the engine and see where there is a negative oil pressure. Chances are you could tee into the sump feed of the oil pump and suck oil out of the turbocharger. The thing you have to be careful about is that your rate in has to be equal to your rate out. If your rate out is higher than your rate in, then you will deprive your turbocharger of the oil that it needs to operate. Alternatively, you can use a needle valve to create a calibrated leak into the suction line and achieve equal inflow and outflow rates. That's probably what I would do.
  16. Josh_LX

    Josh_LX FEOA Member

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    Ahhh yes, another Mechanical Engineer? :wink:

    I'm changing majors to M.E.T. (Mech Eng Tech). I can't do Thermo LOL.
  17. onelatin8ball

    onelatin8ball Guest

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  18. 93EGTinLR

    93EGTinLR Guest

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    while not even close to being a turbo guru...I'll leave that to people who have them installed ...I believe it was in SCC that they were talking about this in reference to a Focus SVT project where the turbo was too far down and required a scavenging pump to bring the oil from teh return line so it would not cause turbo failure....and just my opinion....before you tell someone it is or is not going to work it may be a good idea to listen to those who have succeeded with installs....I could be wrong here but I am sure they have been through some trial and error or through listening to others who have gone before them
  19. Onegimp

    Onegimp New Member

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    Josh_LX, thanks, it's nice to know some one listens. It look like you have done some reading on this subject.

    I give up, you can give out info and let people blow their engines or turbo's.
  20. siragan

    siragan Guest

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    Onegimp - I suggest you open your mind up a little before you just start shooting down the ideas that come up. I.E. my ideas. Which are good ideas. Really good ideas. :)

    What I'm saying is that you COULD POSSIBLY create a pressurized area within the fluid bearing of the turbocharger, enough that you can force oil out the exit of the turbocharger. This height probably isn't going to be a whole lot, and it will likely put stress on the fluid bearing, but it is possible.

    I haven't worked with fluid bearings before, so I'm not sure exactly how much pressure they can withstand before they start to fail, so my idea could be moot, but it's something to consider, and I'd appreciate it if other people on the board wouldn't crap all over what I have to say just because they've made it work other ways. There's more than one way to skin a cat here people...

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