FEOA Forums banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Back on the forum after quite some time...didn't even remember my nickname, so I had to re-register...

1. Is it absolutely necessary to remove the crankshaft pulley? If so, I read there's some sort of inspection plate near the rear of the engine that you remove to put a prybar to the flywheel/driveplate teeth to keep the engine from turning when you remove the front bolt. A little more info on this cover? Also, if using an electric impact gun (~140ft-lb max), do I even need to worry about holding the engine from turning? What about lets say an 800ft-lb gun? I would like to ideally not take out the crank pulley (I'm thinking the crank angle sensor may be in the way for the belt to pass), or at least not have to hold the engine from turning.

2. There was a thread where the OP posted a how-to. He pried the tensioner against the belt after reinstalling, while tightening. I thought you only had to loosen the tensioner, let it pop back, rotate the engine two turns, and tighten the tensioner, essentially letting the spring do it's job?

More questions may follow if I remember. I have the car half apart, so any help will be very appreceated.

Paulo
93 Escort LX 1.9 Air, Auto
 

· Registered
Joined
·
925 Posts
As far as having to remove the crank pulley, you don't have to however, I did remove mine to ensure that the timing mark on the crank itself was in the correct place
(it should line up with the keyway in the pulley) but I have seen them where they were 180 degrees off of of the key. Ifyou are using an impact wrench you won't need to hold the crank from turning. It is best to remove the pulley to make certain that the timing mark is where it should be.

As for the tensioner question is concerned, I always use a prybar and apply some tension to the back side (firewall side) of the tensioner to ensure that the belt gets tight enough. Just the spring alone "should" be enough however...if the tensioner is used and not completely free in its movement, the front side of the belt tends to be a little loose for my taste and leads to the possibility of it jumping a tooth or two. I had this happen to me just a month ago, and wound up replacing the timing belt at 50k just to ensure that it doesn't happen again for the next 50k+.

DO NOT apply too much pressure to the tensioner or you will end up with a nasty whine and will need to go back in to loosen things up.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,371 Posts
pull the wheel and remove the bolts holding the splash shield into place. You will see this(only with a stock pulley):



I would advise removing the pulley, so that you know the belt is properly mounted and lined up correctly. I adjusted my tensioner about the same as dave8338 posted. Just make sure to check the tension once the belt is on, and you have completed your 2 rotations
 

· Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'll remove the pulley. I'm a fairly serious DIYer. Is the inspection plate easy to spot? Whereabouts is it (right at the bottom, to the rear, etc.)? How many bolts hold it on? This is the only part I'm a bit unsure of, since I didn't look for it before.

Thanks for all the help so far!
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,371 Posts
I believe 4 bolts hold it in place... 3 that you see in the pic, and one further back. There may be one or two that I am missing somewhere. There is a round plug that lines up with the crank pulley bolt, that can be removed to get to the bolt itself. My buddy swaps belts just by popping that plug out. I like to take the splash guard out though.

If you look in this pic(yes, I know the rotor was backwards in this pic), you will see the plug in the splash guard

 

· Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sorry...should have clarified...I mean the driveplate inspection cover. I probably need to hold the engine from spinning, and read somewhere that's where you get access to the flywheel/driveplate teeth. But is this really needed with an impact gun?
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
8,227 Posts
Paulo93LX said:
Sorry...should have clarified...I mean the driveplate inspection cover. I probably need to hold the engine from spinning, and read somewhere that's where you get access to the flywheel/driveplate teeth. But is this really needed with an impact gun?
You do not need to hold the crank shaft in place if you use a impact gun.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,371 Posts
ahh... that cover is easy to find if you crawl under and look, but as Jeff said, you wont need to hold it in place if you are using an impact. I took my crank pulley off with an impact, and didn't have any issues with the crank turning.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,057 Posts
if this helps any, i used a thick allen wrench to hold my flex plate from moving since i wasn't using an impact gun. there is a hole on the bottom backside of the tranny where i stuck the wrench between the teeth of the flex plate and the housing of the tranny. sometimes it will slip but it does work this way too.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
543 Posts
overcomplication

I have not been able to get a new belt on without removing the crank pulley!
Am I just missing a trick here?

With the pulley off it is a good time to mark the pulley at 12 O'clock...I used a paint pen with a line from the hub to the rim and across the rim.
A simple dot on the rim is usually hidden and a corresponding spot on the block is helpful.

I once had to remove the crank bolt in a parking lot using a lug wrench and bumping the starter.

Without the belt connected it is quite easy to slide the pulley on (without bolt) and turn it to line up the mark.

One thing I have noticed is that it is often a bit difficult to get the belt tight on the side opposite the tensioner the first time.
After the 2 turns with the tensioner loose I often find I am a tooth off.
Usually a slow turn backwards will allow me to skip a tooth in the right direction...as long as the tensioner is loose.
Did this less than a week ago so it is still fresh.

Bruce
 

· Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: overcomplication

Egnorant said:
I have not been able to get a new belt on without removing the crank pulley!
Am I just missing a trick here?
Bruce
Of all the threads I searched, I only saw a reference to this once. Main problem I see is the crank angle sensor probably needs to be removed, and I'd rather not mess with it. There's also a casting around the gear, which also may be a problem. Also, by removing the the crank pulley, I'll be able to see the marks much better. I was a bit hesitant at first, since from experience removing pulleys can be a pain (I'm picturing gear and bolt pullers), but it's the right thing to do and seems they aren't too bad to get off. Wish me luck!

And once again, thanks for the replies. I'll post how it went.
 

· Registered
1998 ZX2
Joined
·
9,978 Posts
Re: overcomplication

Paulo93LX said:
Main problem I see is the crank angle sensor probably needs to be removed, and I'd rather not mess with it. There's also a casting around the gear, which also may be a problem. Also, by removing the the crank pulley, I'll be able to see the marks much better. I was a bit hesitant at first, since from experience removing pulleys can be a pain (I'm picturing gear and bolt pullers), but it's the right thing to do and seems they aren't too bad to get off. Wish me luck!

And once again, thanks for the replies. I'll post how it went.
The crank sensor doesn't need to be removed and every time I have removed my crank pulley it has slid off with little effort.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
Before I had air tools, I used to loosen mine by disabling the ignition system, then bumping the starter while having a long breaker bar on the bolt.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Alright...got it done. Thanks for all the replies.

Some things I noticed...

1. If you're doing the job over a couple of days because you're too busy, remember that the jack holding the engine after you removed the mount may go down a bit, and it's not good for the jack. I came back to some hydraulic oil on the floor and the engine a bit lower.

2. Removing the spark plugs is not a step you should skip, which I tried. You can still turn the engine, but it turns very erratic, not smoothly at all, and makes aligning the marks hard.

3. The pulley bolt came off easily using an electric impact gun without holding the engine from turning. The pulley came off with a little bit of prying. Pry on the pulley center from behind, to avoid the rubber and outer timing teeth.

4. You do have to take the crank pulley off. I couldn't see the marks on the crank timing gear at all. edit: and there's a casting around the crank timing gear too.

5. When putting them back, It's easier to join the two splash shields first, before you mount them on the chassis. The splash shield on the pass. side wheelwell near the engine has a platic clip/extrusion to the rear of the shield. Put that in first before you add the rest of the bolts.

6. When turning the engine two turns with the tensioner loose, I found it kept moving against the spring. Maybe I was turning it too fast. I tightened the tensioner, turned two turns, then loosened it and pushed it against the belt with a pry bar gently, then removed prybar and tightened the tensioner.

(edit)
7. This is a good time to replace the front oil seal behind the crank timing gear, and obviously the water pump and tensioner if needed.

Maybe I'm overcomplicating it, but that's just how I am with things like this.

RE: 20min. guy - not calling you a liar, but can't see how this is possible - maybe you can share some steps that can be skipped (I read some guys don't put the timing cover on)?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
543 Posts
The 20 minute trick!!

Here are the tips that make the 20 minute belt change possible...

I have done this particular belt change at least 15 times..4 on my daily driver.

Use a 91 Pony that has no air conditioning , power steering or any other thing in the way.

Splash shield has long ago been destroyed and is missing.

Timing cover has a slot cut for the back mounting stud to slide through.

I completely remove the alternator belt tensioner.

I actually have the parts in the car to fix this as the belt never seems to break while sitting at home on the lift.

Raise the hood and use 3/8ths ratchet to remove belt..
13 mm socket removes the tensioner..
10 mm for the 2 cover nuts and slide the cover off...
10 mm loosens the tensioner and Harbor Frieght rubber mallet is used to push the cam belt tensioner back and tightened...

Turn the steering wheel hard right and use my lug wrench (1/2 breakover with an impact socket) on the crank bolt wedged against the ground angling forward and bump the starter...

Turn the crank pully to the 12 o'clock and then remove pulley..
Remove old belt and fragments (used a plastic fork last time)..

Turn cam gear to sight up the bullseye at 12 o'clock and reinstall belt..

Try to keep belt tight on the front side...usually fail and it is a tooth too loose...

loosen timing belt tensioner and install crank pulley and bolt (you did mark the pulley)

HINT: manual trans is easy to tighten the crank bolt. In gear, E-brake and tires on ground. The 2 turns part with spark plugs in will get this bolt decently tight, but I go back after everything is back together and use my mallet on the wrench.

Couple of taps with the mallet on the tensioner and do the 2 turns aligning the bullseye on the cam gear...discover that the crank mark is off so I slowly turn the crank backwards to skip a tooth...perfect!

Do the 2 turns again....marks align...tap tensioner and tighten.

Start the car! Now is the best time because if something is wrong you don't have to remove a bunch of stuff to realign a belt.

Install cam cover, belt tensioner and belt....drive away!

Something in my mind is telling me the cam cover is much easier to install with the crank pulley removed..just don't remember why.

No lift, no motor mount removal, no tire removal!

Bruce

P.S. Another 20 minutes if you are changing the water pump...recommended!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Not bad. I like the part about the slot in the timing cover, and agree the cover would go on easier without the crank pulley nearby. So the spark plugs don't HAVE to be removed, as I've read a couple of times.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,057 Posts
they don't need to be
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
8,227 Posts
Paulo93LX said:
RE: 20min. guy - not calling you a liar, but can't see how this is possible - maybe you can share some steps that can be skipped (I read some guys don't put the timing cover on)?
Practice helps. I've owned 4 Escorts my self, plus 2 friends, one brother inlaw and one random stranger. I've done more them 1 belt replace per escort also. So I might be up to 10 timing belt chances by now.

I have all the bolt sizes memorized, and all the right tools to do it.
I've never pulled a spark plug or alternator to do it.
That does'nt count changing the water pump, that add's on a lot of time to scrape the gasket and mess with the back water pump to heater core hose.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top