Electrical - The Truth on HID "kits" - The real story | Ford Escort Owners Association (FEOA)
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Electrical The Truth on HID "kits" - The real story

Discussion in 'Exterior Modifications' started by Skuce, Apr 6, 2005.

  1. Skuce

    Skuce FEOA Member

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    I got this from www.dsmtuners.com and it's a lot of GOOD info for the ppl wanting HID "kits" for thier Halogen fitted cars.

    =====================================================

    I really hope this thread can help you guys. I found it on another site and thought it could save myself and few others the headache of constantly explaining this.

    Your're making the road more dangerous than it already is by adding a HID kit to your car. so please do HID the right way by doing a retrofit.

    HID kits are illegal due to the glare that they cause. Glare is Light that is emitted in a Uncontrollable path. When light is traveling in a uncontrollable path it can hit other vehicle operators affecting there vision because of the High amount of uncontrollable light that is being Emitted from a HID kit in a standard Halogen housing. If you have ever turned a flashlight on right in front of your face while it is dark out, that is the same feeling that the other drivers on the road experience from a standard HID kit.

    OEM Vehicles such as Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus are all equipped with HID or Xenon Headlights. Some use reflector housing’s without projectors. Others use HID projectors.

    The Lexus IS300 is a Prime Example of a HID reflector housing. It does not use a Projector. It uses a Specially designed Reflector housing that is meant to use HID. This does not create the Super sharp cutoff. But it does control where the light is being Emitted.

    Other vehicles such as the Honda S2000 Use HID projectors, These Projectors are meant to use HID. They are Specially Designed and have been tested Hundreds of times to get the right projection of light while maintaining a Good Cutoff.


    Here are pictures of Halogen housings mated with a HID kit


    9006 6000k HID Kit... lots of glare:

    [​IMG]

    This 'teg is a prime example of Glare. This is what it looks like to oncoming traffic

    [​IMG]

    Disaster pics. HID kit in Halogen Housing: BAD NEWS!!!!!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    NOW on to THE GOOD stuff!

    This is what HID is suppose to look like.. Pictured is a STi:

    [​IMG]

    Talk about a "Razor Sharp" Cutoff.,.... Pictured is a S2000 OEM setup:

    [​IMG]

    Another S2000 Retrofit:

    [​IMG]

    Comparison.. Pictured is a Acura TL-S with HID from the factory vs H4 6000K civic
    See the difference?

    [​IMG]

    Its not just honda's either. Here is a mid 90's Lexus with a HID kit:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Article stating why the kits are illegal.
    http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/glare.html

    To date, NHTSA has investigated 24 HID conversion kit suppliers; all investigations have resulted in recalls or termination of sales.

    RM Racing
    Astex USA
    Kmax International
    FET, Inc.
    J. Liu LLC
    Gourmet Garage
    JC Whitney
    Lighting Research
    SPW Industries, Inc.
    Pacific Micro-lite
    McCulloch Motors, Inc.
    Santeca Electronics
    JF Manufacturing
    Streetglow, Inc.
    Outback Products, Inc.
    Nu Performance
    GR Motorsports, Inc.
    Global Premier
    New Clor
    Importhookup.com
    DG International
    MTC Lighting
    Umnitza
    Liteglow
    American Products Company


    Here are a few sites to get you on your way to a proper conversion:

    Basic HID info:
    http://www.intellexual.net/hid.html

    Housing disassembly:
    http://www.auburn.edu/~fauchpj/headlight.htm

    2G retrofit how-to:
    http://home.gwu.edu/~nloke/eclipsehidretro.html

    Parts:
    http://www.hidtech.com./

    HID/LED/+more forum:
    http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/
  2. bradsescort

    bradsescort FEOA Donator

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    Very straight forward article, good find.
  3. StealthStyle

    StealthStyle FEOA Member

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    its just a bad idea to try and retrofit anything that wasn't meant to be hid, on you own. even if you stick a projector in there, it still needs to be auto leveling.


    besides, think of it this way:

    Q: whats the difference between the high and the low beam on our escorts?

    Hint: its not that wattage, cause you can run 80W lows and be perfectly fine



    A: About 3 millimeters. Thats the difference between the positioning of the high and low beam filaments inside the bulb. a few millimeters is the difference between being safe and blinding eveyone else. So how do you expect the radically different filaments in hid bulbs to work without blinding anyone? It just wont work right.



    If you say you want hid for the larger amount of light output, then here's what to do. Upgrade your headlight harness and throw in some 80/100W bulbs. Then stick in a pair of 55W driving lights. You will be at or above the lighting level of hid headlights with that.
  4. Josh_LX

    Josh_LX FEOA Member

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    I agree with stealth. I was thinking of hacking into my stock lights, but decided a good set of 80/100 watt bulbs, and a set of hella ff1000's were a better way to go. The ff1000's have a rang of over 540 meters and only have a 20* angle of view, so if mounted and aimed correctly, wont bother the other driver too much.
  5. SgtRauksauff

    SgtRauksauff New Member

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    55W driving lightx is what I did, and it's a HUGE difference in ability to see at night with the hi-beams on. They weren't even expensive ones either, they were el-cheapos from Wal-Mart that I installed because I was planning on going to a night-time ice time-trial on a lake. In fact, I'm kind of embarrased, because they have a little blue LED in them that can be turned on too, but I doubt I'll be using it ever.. blue is illegal to have on your car at all in this state. I haven't even bothered to do higher-wattage replacements for the normal bulbs, either.

    One thing that has really irked me in the last couple years is seeing dorks with gigantically bright retardo-lights drivig around, hurting my eyes and just being dumb like that.

    Skuce, that's a great article, hopefully, people will read it and keep it in mind when they mod their lights.

    --sarge
  6. red97lxscort

    red97lxscort FEOA Member

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    ^werd.. i have 4 5" off road lights that i use when im driving at night to or from my house.. in the boonies.. i switch em off with my hi beams.. no biggy. thye are aimed really well also and beign as my car is so low, i never get the hi beam flick from other drivers...all in all we should just be considerate.
    -Justin
  7. StealthStyle

    StealthStyle FEOA Member

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    shoot... i run 80/100W in the headlights and the stock 27.5W gt fog lamps and its always plenty. besides, when i go run in the dark canyons, 80W lows can be too much, i sure as hell wouldn't want to be running hid in those conditions.


    Oh yea, people make sure you get driving lights if you want... well, driving light. there is a pretty good difference between driving lights and fog lights.
  8. Roddy

    Roddy Guest

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    Nice i'd never swap to HID cuz of the cost, but yeah interesting article. i'm not surprised in the findings.
  9. fixitmattman

    fixitmattman New Member

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    Indeed. Not so bad in the city, but when you're driving in the country where it's darker and all of a sudden HID boy comes over a hill with his higbeams on pointed right at you it's almost dangerously blinding.

    Matt 8)
  10. looger79

    looger79 Guest

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    my Silverstar halogens are good enuf. I can't understand why ppl would use the HID kits.
  11. GregF422

    GregF422 FEOA Member

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    Let me just say that I'm NOT trying to disprove the article above, i think it makes some really good points. In fact, because of the kit cost and the growing awareness of their illegality, if i do go HID, i'll probalby put out the extra cash for HID driving lights and tack them on somewhere.

    BUT i do see some counter points that should be made...
    1.Glare is not something that's unique to the HIDs in halogen housings. Halogens create glare too. But their light output level is lower. If you run halogens that are 2 or 3 times brighter than stock ones (ie: higer voltage), your glare will be just as bad as if you were running HIDs.
    2.All those pictures show what glare looks like to other drivers very nicely. However, if you, were the on coming driver and are seeing the glare like in those pictures, the more immediate problem is the fact that you're about to be involved in a head on collision. Stand directly in front of your halogens sometime, it looks very simiar (just a little more yellowish). A more proving picture would be one from an angle just outside of the halogen glare and then the same angle on the same car with HID.
    3.If you've ever been caught directly in the beam of a car with OEM HIDs, you know that the glare they create is MAGNITUDES worse than those of halogens. The OEM HIDs don't create any less glare, they just contain it better around the fringes.

    It seems to me that glare issue is a symptom of a much more common problem. The bigger problem is misaligned headlights. The thing is, it's much less noticible with halogens. If everyone had their headlights aligned approiatly, glare would be much less of a problem than it currently is. But you still see pickups driving around with them pointed almsot level - directly into the mirrors of cars like ours. Or WORSE, those that point of toward Mars somewhere and are probably blinding some Southwest pilot somewhere up there.

    I am a fan of the HID look, but i think the concearns presented hare are ligitimate. And in double filament bulb housing (like the 9004 and 9007) the HIDs arc covers the areas where both the low and high beam filaments are. As aresult, you get a beam pattern that's like having both high beam and low beam on at once. A lens / housing retrofit would be the right way to do it, but for a lot of vehicles, it just doesn't exist.

    To me, the solution isn't to pull these from the market all together, its to either have these companies design housings to fit the vehicles (not likely because it's expensive) or to redesign the bulb so that they're backward compatible.

    Until then, i guess we'll have to settle with either dodging the police, paying a crap load for HID driving lights, or risking melted harnesses for high-wattage halogens.
  12. StealthStyle

    StealthStyle FEOA Member

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    you're partly there, but not all the way.

    you can run higher wattage bulbs without blinding anyone else. yes there will be slightly more glare, but not nothing you would notice unless you were looking for it.


    the reason these hid bulbs give off more glare has to do with the color. as you get nearer blue, light tends to scatter more easiliy. this means no matter what, you will get more glare because it will scatter. 8000k bulbs will be horrible for other drivers compared to 4700k which is more of a white. but halogens are still under 4700k, so scatter is even less of an issue.

    so, no it wont blind you as bad a a poor hid setup. there was a website that went in depth into it... let me see if i can remember it...

    here ya go: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech ... tages.html
  13. bluefoton

    bluefoton Guest

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    One thing I dont like about HIDs (tried once to drive a bit off the city) - that transition from bright/dark is just too sharp.

    With regular headlights, the shadeline is smoother, and as the road is less illuminated, I think that the eye just increases its senstitivity to light, allowing you to remotely see what's outside of your beams.

    My general impression was that with a "normal" car, I see decently where I should, and a bit around. With HIDs I see very well where I should and nothing outside 8)
  14. TwinLTSs

    TwinLTSs Guest

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    Very good article, glad somebody sticky'd it. I had been considering one of those kits, not anymore. I've been fairly happy with my Silverstar/driving light setup anyways though. I put Silverstars in my '00 Taurus and people are always flashing me. The assemblies in the new Taurus's are strange; the bulb goes in like normal, but it shines into a reflector that reflects it backwards into the housing that reflects it back forwards. (If you look at the housing you can't see the bulb.) It sounds like a strange design, but with Silverstars in them I'd say they're just as bright as a true OEM HID setup.

    Don't waste money on "HID"-like halogen bulbs, just get Silverstars. They last a lot longer and they're a lot brighter than regular halogens. Sure, they're $50 a pair, but they're well worth the money and don't require replacing the harnesses.
  15. escortalade

    escortalade Guest

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    anyone ever do a conversion on an escort? well a second gen anyway?
  16. secondgenlxturbo

    secondgenlxturbo Guest

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    I did a conversion on my 1990 Ford Taurus.
  17. Qmobile

    Qmobile FEOA Member

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    STUPID QUESTION: Is simulated H.I.D less dangerous than full blown H.I.D, reason I say this is the box that my fog lights came in say they are simulated H.I.D. halogen bulbs
  18. svtfast

    svtfast New Member

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    I am in the middle of a a true HID conversion on my 94 lx. I cant use escort headlights since I cant make em clear or even buy them clear so I will use lights from another car.

    I made my own bezels and shrouds and wiring harness. I am not done with all of that but I'll post pics when I am done.


    real HID kits cost $$$$, trust me, I know. There are no real cheap hid kits, you have been warned.
  19. svtfast

    svtfast New Member

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    Harness is done, well almost. It works but I need more stuff for cosmetics.

    Highbeams are still a bitch, I think I figured them out but I am on my last "part" so I dont want to "blow" it.

    Pics like I said when the harness is done. I have pics of the working lights on my phone but my stupid comp wont recognize it.
  20. mechmunkee-j

    mechmunkee-j New Member

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    http://www.theretrofitsource.com
    i dont think i saw this url posted, but its a pretty good site that will explain an HID conversion and gives detailed instructions on how to do it. found it in the may issue of honda tuning magazine... i had already read my issue of sport compact car 4 times and i didnt want to stoop to reading super street... (jason hates super street) anyways, they did that retrofit on an acura rl, and they sanded down the inside of the headlight lens and polished it till it was clear. anyways, they sell the components you'd need on the site, the projectors harnesses and ballasts, and their tech support is fast and pretty easy to understand.

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