FEOA Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
hello again, I still have problems with my escort. The air filter looks new, the injector clicks and sprays a conical jet, like it should(i think). I have replaced the o2 sensor, cap, rotor, wires, filters are new, probably in need of an oil change, and doesnt have too bad of plugs. How could i be getting sub-20 mpg? It smells incredibly gassy when im going highway speed, and it spits black liquid out of the exhaust when its cold... I can feel it hesitate, and kind of lose power when im going 55-60, and it kind of stutters when i am not accelerating or decelerating, but trying to keep constant speed... I just want to throw a new motor in, haha
Any help would be greatly appreciated
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,043 Posts
First, check for error codes stored in the ECU's memory. That will give you a very good idea of what to do aside from throwing parts at it. It could be as simple as a leaking vacuum line, or a little more serious like the fuel regulator leaking, maybe a loose timing belt, or wobbly distributor, but it's not easy to tell until codes are pulled. Do a search in the 1st gen section for error codes...and it takes a while to find it if you don't already know how and/or have the apparatus to check, or know what the codes mean. I'm still working on my how-to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
i just have to drive 10-15 miles to autozone. They pull error codes for free. I guess thats the motivation to go there and check
Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,043 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the thread, i pulled these codes.. Unless i missed something, i got 22,22,12,23,22,23,2 im pretty sure i missed something, but i im fairly certain I have a bad MAP sensor. I dont know where it is, though
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I just ran it again. I did the version with the car on, and went by the check engine light flashing. The car idled high, etc. I got these codes: 21, 22, 42, 18. They make more sense to me. I noticed the check engine light flashed in unison with the test light. I just went by the check engine light this time, and those were the codes i got. I'm starting to second guess myself..
EDIT: ok, i know i screwed up the first one.. I know my thermostat is bad, 21
22, MAP sensor, ive gotten that twice
ill look into the rest..

18- SPOUT circuit open
-what is this, how do i fix it? What effect does it have?
42- Fuel mixture rich
-Ive replaced the O2 sensor, is there more than one? I replaced the one on the manifold. Im hoping the MAP sensor is causing this

Any help is appreciated, thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,043 Posts
It can't test the thermostat.

21 means the coolant temp sensor is out of range...my guess is you didn't have the car up to operating temp. That was one of the codes I mentioned in my test how-to.

22, MAP out of specified range...it's probably a leaking or disconnected vacuum line, although I won't rule out the sensor itself being bad.

42, Fuel mixture rich...that's due to the MAP being out of whack. Engine theory 101: it's better to run rich than lean to save the engine.

18 should have come first since it's the smallest number. Anyway SPOUT circuit open is simple. SPOUT means "Spark OUT." Look for a little gray or black plastic connector right by the TFI connector. If you see an open plug, then you have no SPOUT connector, which means the computer doesn't have control over the ignition timing. If the connector is there, try spraying it with some electronics contact cleaner after taking the connector out.

These issues definitely explain the problem with the car's poor performance. There is no indication the O2 sensor was ever the issue by those codes. Check for vacuum leaks, broken or cracked hoses, or even ones missing. That seems like the first place to start to fix the MAP issue, which will take care of the rich fuel mix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The line on the MAP sensor (directly on the strut tower, correct?) looks good, however, it was hard to check the whole line because it runs under the air cleaner. The length that i saw seemed relatively new, and seemed like it was in pretty good shape. Is there an easy way to check the whole length of vacuum line, or the sensor itself? Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,043 Posts
Take the air bonnet off to check the vacuum lines that run to the manifold. There are also some that run to the bonnet for the heat exchanger system (which I hate and removed on mine). A vacuum gauge will also help determine individual leaks (if they exist).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
ok, ill look into it. One thing i though of: My car usually doesnt get to operating temp, but stays on the line for cold. Its weird...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Its usually highway driving, for about 10 miles. I suspect its a faulty thermostat, and the fact that the water pump is new
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,043 Posts
The new water pump is likely not the culprit in this case. 10 miles should be enough for the water to have warmed up (although the oil wouldn't be). In this case you'd have to check the resistance of the temp gauge sender unit. It's located in the side of the intake manifold, and will have a red single wire connector hooked to it. Beware coolant leakage if you take the sensor out. The test usually consists of checking resistance at low and high temperatures. You can check the sensor resistance with it still in the intake just by using the intake as the "ground" and the screw tip of the sensor as the "positive." I don't remember the resistance offhand, but I'll try to find it.

The other thing to do is test the thermostat. That involves taking it out and boiling it in water to see if it opens at a given temp (stock is 195F). You'd need a thermometer, too. If it doesn't open by then, or within a couple degrees, or is already open even when cold, replace the thermostat. I'd go with a 180F type since it really does help cool the engine off, although if you experience cold winters where you live, it will take the car forever to warm up. Mine runs a 180F thermostat, and a little lower pressure radiator cap, and the car will not be at operating temp in 10 miles on a 32F day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,924 Posts
I will say this related to a vaccuum leak in the line for the map sensor. My car would start to idle about 2 grand a minute or two after setting an idling ( I drove the car from work to pick up my son from wrestling practice, waiting for him to come out it would do this). Once I replaced the vaccuum line, the idle went to normal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,556 Posts
I had the vacuum line to the map sensor crack on my '88 once and had a decrease in fuel economy plus when I took it in for emissions testing it maxed out the emissions testing machine. The inspector told me that was the first time he had ever seen one max out the machine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Hey guys. The previous owner probably replaced the vacuum line, then stopped spending money on the car. I replaced the MAP sensor. The check engine light went out, and the car runs noticeably better. I also put bosch platinums in, since they needed to be changed anyway. One weird thing is, the check engine light came on after about 15-20 miles of driving, before i could rig up the tester, and on the way home, it never came on. That sensor did the trick, and it was about $95. I know something isnt right with the thermostat, or the temperature sensor. Ill test that when the light comes on again

EDIT: I forgot to mention, i bought a new thermostat, along with the o2 sensor and transmission mount (old one's rubber replaced with wood by the last owner). I live in wisconsin, so i value a good heater greatly. It got to about -50 with windchill this winter, and my golf didnt get above 55 degrees inside all winter... Its tricky, because it gets hot and cold here
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,043 Posts
A thermostat isn't hard to replace. If you already bought it, and you suspect the current one, go ahead and replace it. If you don't, you're just going to get poor mileage since the engine will take longer to warm up. One question I have, though....where on the "normal" scale is the needle at? Mine routinely runs at the bottom of the L or even on the bracket line for "Normal." Obviously, N means you're in trouble. If you stay in the "cold" area, definitely check the thermostat, and the temp gauge sender. It's worth doing while it's still warm out.

Glad to know the new MAP worked out. Sometimes the diaphragm inside cracks and leaks vacuum, throwing off the readings. It's very rare, but still happens. My old Tempo had 255k on it, still the original MAP. My current Escort is also using its original MAP and TPS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Thanks for the help guys. I tested the check engine light, because i drove it about 20 miles to go fishing. I got 41, and 16. Its kinda weird, because it went from one to the other.. What can make it run lean? Is it those plugs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,043 Posts
41 and 16 now tend to support a bad O2 sensor. Since you replaced it recently with a new one I'm going to rule that out, especially if you replaced it with a name brand (Bosch or Motorcraft). I had similar codes show up after I'd put on a new O2 sensor, and it was due to a combination of a bad TPS and wobbly distributor shaft. Mostly it was the TPS causing the lean problem, and the wobbly distro causing poor combustion.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top