[siragan]

In both my 95LX and my 91GT, I have a problem with "plowing". I´m not sure exactly what the definition of plowing is, but what happens is when I head into a turn, instead of the car... well, turning, it will continue in a straight line and the front tires will kinda "plow" in a straight path and I won´t be able to make the turn.

This is really annoying because I can´t go as fast.

Is my technique wrong? Should I buy new tires? Tune for negative camber?

And what are characteristics of "good suspension"? What are some tests I can do to validate that my suspension is in decent condition?

 

[Beaverboy]

plowing = understeer
More grip in the rear than the front for what is required.

This may be due to the suspension setup, alignment, or your driving technique.

You can always rotate your tires and see if there´s a difference after a few hundred miles (after the tires have sort of worn into their new positions).

You can check your toe angles by running a peice of strong (not stretchy) string and measuring the distance between the fronts of the wheels and the rears of the wheels.

To check for correct camber and tire pressures, use some chalk to put lines from your sidewall up and onto the tread at several places around the outsides of the tires.. then go thrash the car and see how much of the chalk is left. If it´s apparent that the tires have been rolling way over on the sidewalls, more pressure and more camber may be in order.

How do you enter corners? With the car settled (neutral), under power.. under braking? Have you ever attempted left foot braking to get the car to pivot? Is your rear sway bar connected well? Are the bushings in good condition?

grabbing straws here.

 

[91sleeper]

If you want the rear end to be more loose you can get a larger rear sway bar. Both quickor and suspension techniques have them for scorts. You´ll notice a huge difference if you put just a large rear bar on and leave everything else alone. Here is my personal experience:

1. Get larger rear sway bar (1" quickor bar).
2. Enter corner at high speed (approx 70mph, doh).
3. Let off gas while turning (don´t do that!!!).
4. Spin into curb at 70mph, breaking steering rack and 1 tie rod, bending other tie rod, bending 2 brand new 17´s, and ruining 3 new tires.
5. Sob.
6. Sob again.
7. Learn lesson hard way and learn not to let off gas while turning. Also learn not to go 70mph on curvy, sandy road.

Since then I have had nothing but good experiences with my suspension setup. The handling is much better with a large rear bar as long as you know how to control the car. :-]

 

[bpletch1]

Per Beaverboy, you can do a lot with tire pressure alone. Without knowing your entire suspension setup, it´s hard to give advice.
My situation..
Tokico struts
F/R strut bars
factory style springs
15x6.5 rims with 205/50VRs

I changed my handling to fairly neutral by messing with my pressures. Factory spec is 32/32. I have found, with MY setup and with 2 PSI increments of variation, and NOT GOING OVER MY TIRE´S MAX PRESSURE, that 37 front and 35 rear works well for me. It still understeers a little bit, but I´d rather have it understeer than oversteer (in the dry anyway, with my snows, it´s a different set of pressures). Understeer is much easier to correct (slow down!).

Beaverboys "chalk" method is how the autocrossers do it, and it´s a great tool to use. I would not recommend messing with your alignment by yourself. That´s a job best left to professionals with years of training using high-end electric-eye or laser type alignment machines. We´re talking HUNDREDTHs of a degree here! If you want them to, they can set your camber to it´s max negative factory spec, but be advised that unless you corner hard ALL THE TIME, you will most likely get inside edge wear on your tires.

As for technique, "slow in - fast out". The most important place for speed is coming out of a corner, not going into one. If you go into a turn at say, 40 MPH, but have to slow down to 35 MPH to handle the corner, you just scrubbed speed and added time. If, however, you enter that same corner at 35 MPH, roll onto the gas and are at full throttle at the apex (whole other talk), you will be able to exit that corner at 40+ MPH, you can balance the car better and get to the next corner faster.

 

[siragan]

Just out of curiosity, how easy/hard is it to FLIP an EGT? I´ve never taken my car that hard, but are you much more likely to throw out the back end in a fishtail or to flip the car over?

 

[Juggernaut]

i´ve seen an old dodge daytona tilted about 45 degrees after a hard curve / braking. the car was pretty much a junker to begin with, and the driver was going as hard as possible on this solo II course. he recovered from the tilt, but had to turn off of the course into dirt/grass and actually got clumps of grass stuck in between the rim and the tire! i´ll hafta look for a pic of it somewhere...

just taking a hard curve likely won´t flip an EGT, but braking hard coming out of one into another turning the opposite direction, it´s quite possible to get flipped

 

[Diane]

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01-04-2003 at 08:24, siragan wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how easy/hard is it to FLIP an EGT? I´ve never taken my car that hard, but are you much more likely to throw out the back end in a fishtail or to flip the car over?

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Ask Wizard Racing. ;-)

FWIW, if you are plowing in normal driving conditions, you are going too fast for the corner/conditions.

If your car is set up to handle on the track and you are plowing in track driving conditions, you are likely going to fast for that corner.

BTDT and gave the two front runners in my class quite the show. :-o

Diane
4 1G´s

[ This message was edited by: Diane on 01-04-2003 18:21 ]

 

[James92Scort]

Unless you´re trying to do donuts at like 40 mph on ice and you hit a patch of dry pavement...or if you´re skidding sideways and you hit a deep pothole or a curb, you will never flip your car. Maybe slowing down for a bit until you get used to the car would help just a little? ;-)

 

[nukewater]

I flipped my car!!!! it was devastating and exhilerating at the same time, Goin 100 KMP down a divided highway, hit the ditch sideways and flipped 3 and a 1/2 times, i would definatly do it again if i knew i wouldnt get hurt again, the only pain i felt was the 6" fall to the roof when i took my seatbelt off :-]

 

[92gt5spd]

james, did u get my private message.

 

[siragan]

lol nuke.... did you waste your new red EGT too?

Also, what temperature should I check my tire pressure at?

And how can I "test" my suspension? What are characteristics of good suspension?

 

[bpletch1]

PSI should be checked firsth thing in the AM, BEFORE YOU DRIVE ANYWHERE!! Driving=friction=heat=increased air pressure

As for rolling, I haven´t done that in my EGT but I did do it in my ´86 EXP. Went WAY too fast over a hill with a quick curve at the crest. I don´t know if the car was airborne, but the suspension was hanging all the way or most of the way down. Anyway, when I landed I couldn´t regain control, did teh whole correct/over-correct thing, slid off the side of the road a few hundred feet later (sideways) down a 2 foot embankment into a filed (soft dirt). The left side tires caught in the dirt and we went over once. The car was so toasted, I ddin´t even call my insurance company!

I wasn´t injured, but my frined had a little glass in his forehead.

All this 2 days after installing my brande new Eibach kit and Monroe struts!!
I did get the springs off the car and installed them on my next ´86 EXP, which I upgraded to 15 rims and wider tires. I drove that car for 3 years before it gave up on me (engine, clutch, etc...all at once).