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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've thrown up posts about this before but I wanted to revisit this subject.

First off the whole primeries are going on right now. so in regards to that who do you plan to vote for? If you don't plan on voting don't bother posting. Why bother talking about it if you don't care enough to vote!? So who would you vote for and why? Also if it is not Bush I'm interested in hearing why you feel that way and what the new person could do better.

I honestly want to hear all points of view.

In my honest oppinion we stand at a critical time in the US. I personally like most of what Bush has done. I will most likely vote for him (As will all my family I'm sure). However we are not blind followers so that is why I/we like to discuss it. I'm afraid if Bush does not get ellected again the US is going to be in for a world of hurt on many fronts. Mostly small things that will lead to bigger changes over time but it does worry me.

I also wanted to feel out what the general impression is on the War in Iraq. I have some views but I'd like to see what others have to say before I respond.
 

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I voted Libertarian last time around, but this time I am voting for Bush. As a whole, I think he'll do much less damage to the country than any Democrat would, so he gets my vote. And yes I like the fact that we attacked Iraq and Afghanistan. I figure it's about time we put the Stalin of the middle East out of business. Maybe now places like Iran, Syria, anf France will behave better and stop harboring terrorists. I hate it when we have limp wristed presidents like Clinton or Jimmy Carter whose foreign policy lets every other country walk all over us. It's not that I think we have to invade everyplace (you dont!). It's just that ever once in a while you have to make an example out of somebody to keep the rest of them in line (like the better behavior we gout ot of Lybia). As far as some of our nations problems like the alleged recession (since when is 6% unemployment bad :scratch:) that would be no different if somebody else were president. I see all the outsourcing as our biggest economic problem right now. And I don't see any president doing anything about that.

I'll listen to what the Democratc candidates have to say, but all they want is socialism, and that's been proven not to work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
whats sad is no one is replying... so does that mean no one intends to vote? Everyone has something to complain about as long as they don't have to take 30 minutes every couple years to vote?
 

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why would you feel like having to make an example for others ?

Who do you think you guys are ? why would i let you teach me what is good for me when you have the highest mortality rate caused by firearms then any other industrialized country ? why would i let some crazy killas teach me what is wrong and whatnot?

The only organisation that i would accept to consider suggestions from is the ONU...not the US..i know you might feel like it is... But the Earth is not yours and i hope that i won't live long enought to see this happening...
its not that I hate americains...all in all i like americains as individuals, but i just can't stand your international policies...it's just not right
 

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Electronikal said:
all in all i like americains as individuals, but i just can't stand your international policies...it's just not right
Exactly what is it about you guys that turns you into cheese eating surrender monkeys anyway?



And if you search the internet, there is no shortage of webpages originating all over the world devoted to hatred of the French. I've found anti-French webpages based in the US, Canada, UK, Finland, and even some thirld world countries. Seems to me that the French are plenty good at making enemies everywhere they go.

Here is one I thought was particularly good:
http://www.bobfromaccounting.com/5_13/francesucks.html

Here is someone in Switzerland who hates the French:
http://www.wtnet.ch/homepages/acf0008/french.html

And here is a Canadian hate French site.
http://www.theshrubbery.com/1299/canada1299.html

I think all Frenchmen should have this posted on their wall, so maybe they wouldn't have such a high opinion of themselves:



Gaul vs. Julius Caesar - Gaul defeated by Rome circa 49 B.C. (Rome defeated the early French swine - the Frenchies had to Hail Julius Caesar as their new leader)

Gaul vs. Franks - Gaul defeated by Franks (the 'original' French, replaced by the Franks *sigh*)

Franks vs. Huns - Huns sack Paris circa 450 A.D. (Huns finally defeated here - Attila's ONLY defeat. Notice it was done by a German-Roman coalition, NOT the Franks)

Franks vs. Themselves - Clovis unites Franks into one kingdom around 511 A.D. He dies and the 'kingdom' falls apart at the seams. Ever hear of naming a successor or how bout a will?

Franks vs. Muslims - Charles Martel defeats a SMALL Muslim raiding party at the Battle of Tours in 732 A.D. Muslims lost interest so Charles claimed a 'great victory'. Notice they didn't follow up and kick the Muslims out of Spain though.....

Franks vs. Franks - Charlemagne crowned 'Emperor of the Romans', Christmas 800 A.D. Again this 'empire' fell apart by 840 A.D. - sheesh. Charlemagne could read but couldn't write - now what sense does that make?

Franks vs. Vikings - From 841 to 911 A.D. the Viking Warrior-Badasses mopped the Frankish countryside with Frank ass. France surrenders Normandy to Vikings 911 A.D. (Stupid mid-evil France was easily bullied by real warriors)

France vs. England - 100 Years War 1337 - 1453 A.D. Battle of Crecy - 1337 A.D. (English hand the French their own asses in the start of the 100 Years War with the timely use of the longbow. French knights are mowed down like the cannon fodder they were.) Battle of Poitiers, 1356 A.D. - More of the same. Battle of Agincourt, 1415 A.D. - Henry V gets some French butt-whoopin' action. Unfortunately, a heretic freak named Joan of Arc came along and united all the French Frogs and they managed to repel the English. And we all know where that got her....TOASTY.

Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.

France vs. France - 1572 A.D. St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre by Queen Catherine. She killed thousands of protestants and Jews. Hrm...that sounds really familiar - the FINAL SOLUTION ring any bells? Evidently these bastards were no better than Nazi Germany and yet they are proud of their heritage?

France vs. Europe - War of Spanish Succession 1648 A.D. (France tries to fight rest of Europe over Spain and looses to Frederick William of Germany)

France vs. Europe - 7 Years War or French Indian War 1756 A.D. (France gets beat up on 2 different continents by England and Germany plus the early future Americans - a guy named George Washington ring any bells?)

France vs. France - French Revolution 1789 - 1799A.D. (France kicks their own asses) Dr. Guillotine makes a handy invention that allows the Frenchies to chop off their own heads with amazing speed - thanks Jacobin Republicans!

France vs. Europe - Waterloo 1815 A.D. (Wellington delivers knockout to Napoleon - 2nd time. This comes AFTER the Russian Winter destroyed the largest army in the World and the U.S. conned old Nappy in the Louisiana Purchase - WHAT A BARGAIN!)

France vs. France - French Revolution (again) 1848 A.D. (France is still kicking their own asses on a smaller scale)

France vs. Mexico - late 1860s - early 1870s A.D. - France conquers Mexico. Wow! Amazing. What an accomplishment. Funny though, when the U.S. decided to enforce the Monroe Doctrine and in so many words told France to get the HELL out of our side of the world, they tucked tail and ran.

France vs. Prussia - Franco-Prussian War 1870 A.D. (William I of Germany kicks the teeth out of Napoleon III - good old Willy proclaims himself emperor of Germany at the Palace of Versailles - can you say bitchslap?) This all started because France opposed the unification of Germany - notice this starts a nasty chain of events that doesn't end till 1945......seems to me we can almost chalk up WWI and II on the dumbass French.

France vs. Germany - WWI 1914-1918 A.D. (Germany beats the hell out of France - without the aid of USA, France would be speaking German. France only won because of Uncle Sam jumped in - then those dumbass sore-winners in France impose an incredibly harsh Treaty of Versailles to 'punish' the Germans. Notice the resulting conditions of this allowed the rise of an unknown Austrian named HITLER.

France vs. Germany - Rise of Hitler 1933-1939 A.D. (Germany bullies France into letting them take more territory - the wussies wouldn't even fight over it - they adopted a policy of 'appeasement' - can you say SCARED?)

France vs. Germany Round II - WWII June 22, 1940 A.D. (France surrenders to Hitler at Compiegne after putting up a fight that made Polish Army look good. Notice Vichy France who quickly jumped ship to be friends with the Germans. And once again without the help of good old Uncle Sam the Atlantic Wall would never have been penetrated - France would either be a part of the 3rd Reich or a satellite country of Communist Russia under Uncle Joe Stalin)

France vs. Vietcong - Vietnam 1954 A.D. (French Army at Dien Bien Phu surrender to Ho Chi Minh)

Algerian Rebellion - Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

War on Terrorism - France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

Let's face it. When it comes to war, France gets rolled more often than a Parisian prostitute with a visible mustache
 

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So what ? Have you ever seen the Army in France ? it sucks big time...but hey...i'd rather live in a country where the army sucks then living in the
world's #1 weapon building and selling country..

I'm sorry if im not like you...but i don't solve my problems with gun fights and i do not chew tobacco either...I'm really sorry i have not been raised in the good ol' west...slaying Indians and chasing Buffalo's . I'm so sorry my country never lunched not just one, but two untested atomic bombs among civilians in some of the most populated city.

And hey....let me remind ya something..the usa forces only manage to defeat Hitler's army cauz they entered in the war when both sides were suffering from restless attacks.... England had been bombed daily for more then 2 months and they still managed to survived...and Nazi troups found another way through the France's defense..which consisted of the Maginot Line....they could not expect the Panzer tanks to make it through the surrounding areas... And nazi were beeing bitch slapped by the Russian troups since they were fighting during a pretty cold winter in Russia...Hitler had already been loosing his mind for some time now and he sent his troups without proper equipement to suit the -40 celsius of the russian winter and russian managed to slow down the supply convoy...

And stop bashing french people cauz yeah...the country surrender to its ennemy but still there was a coalition of rebels at that time who played an important role in France as they were hacking the Nazi'S communications and supply convoys...

And its easy to say we are good when the ennemy is not at the gates of your city with tanks, airplaines and infantry troops....i'm pretty sure that if the USA would have been closer to Hitler's reich he would have bombed your industries and your defense as well.....Also...they could not expect that the Nazi's had been secretly working on building war machines to start a quest for control of Earth. Neither could England, Poland, Russia and USA.

Even worse..during WWII united states made astronomic amounts of money by " allowing ridicoulus credit" to the allies.... selling them boats, weapons, iron, woods, etc.... so its not hard to understand how come USA was able to grow stronger throughout the war... its the perfect economic situation..

War ( far away from your frontiers) + Need for weapons + Industries + credit = profits + high employement rate + developpment of industries =
WOW I'M SO RICH I DONT KNOW WHAT DO DO WITH MY MONEY!

This is not to say that USA is a bad country and that americans are all crazy motherf***ka...cauz like everyother country , the USA tries to do what is best for its population...but I feel like your heads are so filled with false Pride, patriotism and lies... that you can't see the truth sometimes....

And by the way...why did you decided to call yourself Americans....man...you're the only country in the entire world who's habitants are called the same way as all of the habitant of the continent they live on......this should just not be...you are not the only american here....there are other countries on this continent....
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
well couple things. I started this topic not to school anyone or teach anyone what is right but because I wanted to hear other oppinions. I do feel anyone that does not plan on voting in any country where they have that right and the system is not corrupt is just plain stupid. How can you possibly expect anything to change if you are not going to work towards it yourself?

second how the hell did this turn into a gun/war topic?

Now I know you and I haven't agreed with alot but I still injoy discussing it and learning what others think.

As for bashing the french. That has been a time honored tradition here. I have a branch of the family tree that is french-canadian. The french helped us out and for that we owe them a lot. However there current goverment stance does draw some serious attention. Several of chirac (sp?) higher ups have recently been reported to have made millions of dollars off the oil for food program as obvious payouts by saddam for support. That makes me question whether their stance was right or just bought and paid for.

Several things to think about in WWII. Did you know that before WWII we had the 14th largest army in the world? From the time between us being attacked at pearl harbor to us invading italy we had become the largest. Canada did a lot with us so they deserve some respect as well. A lot of people in this country didn't think we should go messing around with other peoples wars until we were attacked. I don't agree with it but you can't change history. However our people did a lot over there. As did the russions, brittish, canadians and many others countries... thats why they call them world wars!

Do you honestly think is was so horrible for our contry to sell equipment to other countries?! sure we made a proffit. Trust me its they way the world works.. even canada. If all their factories are bombed they can't make them. So they can either surrender and send all their little jewish, black, gay and anything else that wasn't blond hair and blue eyed off to be murdered or we can help them by selling them stuff.

As for the nukes goes. Did you know more people were killed in the mombings and eventual firestorm in I think it was berlin? Why does no one talk about that? Are german lives less worthy as Japanese? Nukes are a mixed blessing. The war in Japan was horrible! I'd like to see some figures on loss of lives on both sides per day and see how many lives were saved by the war ending so quickly. Bombing population centers was the norm back then. It may some day be again. But it isnt know and we can be thankfull for the big bad american war mongers for coming up with smart bombs that while not 100% perfect at least allow us to drop the rates of innocent deaths by a LOT. I often wonder how many more wars were avoided by the threat of being wiped off the plannet with one push of a button. Scares the crap out of me but you have to understand it is also a powerfull deterent. Not to mention a great power source. I just wish they would figure out how to clean up the waste safely.

Now... lets do a quick study here. The official name is "The United States of America".....so Americans is pretty easy to come by. It's not an evil plot to hijack the name of a continant.

What was the attack about us western US people killing off indians? Everyone that lives in the west considers that a horrible thing. I haven't killed an indian in years. Let alone taken their land. Come on that is idiotic. A bunch of idiots a long time before I ever got here did something I don't agree with one bit. Should I move and give them my land back...wait I don't own any! If we use that mentality you better not go to Germany if you are jewish!

Now I think anyone reading this knows my stance on Guns. I for one have never solved an argument by shooting anyone. I own several guns. So by your thinking I should have killed several people by now right? I've never even brandished one in a bad situation. I know people that carry them for defence. I've never seen them take it out except at the practice range. Guns are something our founding fathers made sure we had a right to have. Most murders are not done by legal firearms owners but by people that got them illegally,stole them etc. IF someone really wants to murder someone they will attempt it no matter what the weapon. Actually I haven't ever seen anyone pull a gun out in public? I've seen plenty of fights and plenty of people with guns.

And we all chew tobbaco in the US. Especially us wester us people. I can't go a day without some chaw!

hmm... maybe some other countries are just as guilty of not having an open mind?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
quick update. I have been trying to find some hard numbers on the Japane A-bombs since I posted the last reply. Here is what I have so far.

I'm estimating about 400K deaths by the Atomic bombs in Japan. using this site http://www.csi.ad.jp/ABOMB/ Now from all the info I've been able to figure out there were roughly 6,640 US deaths per month in WWII. So if we take April 1942 (about the time the US and Japan started fighting it out for islands in the pacific) to Aug 1945 when the bombs were dropped we get 265,600 US deaths. You can easily double that for Japanese deaths, plus the islanders of all the little islands the Japanese and US were fighting on/for. Which gives us at the very least 531,200 deaths up until that point. Now I've seen figures of 1,000,000 if we had invaded the mainland...which we were not even close to by the time the bomb was dropped. take from the numbers what you will. They are all really rough guesses. I wish I had some real numbers. I've always heard it saved lives but yikes. I'd like to see some real numbers.

this is an interesting list of mass deaths http://www.dpds.net/massdeath.html
 

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Well EGTdude...i should have been more precise about who my post was aimed at...it was not aimed at you, but mostly to the dude who started the flamming on french people based on facts taken out of their historical contexts..which is a somthing i just can't stand...

And i'm not defending french people because i feel i have too cauz my mother language is french... Î would have done the same for every other nation who would have been judged in an unproper maner.... even if i don't agree with the way they choose to live...and this is also good for the USA.... I know this country has done lots of good things for the general well beeing of human race.... but when it comes to war...i just can't desagree more.... As you said, thousands of americans died monthly during WWII... and i know that those man gived their lives to allow every single one of us to live as we speak...

I know WWII would have never happen if Hitler had never decided to conquer the world..
but just consider the problem froma nother perception..
Hitler had a dream..the dream of creating a new nation..a New Empire...based on his believes.....He had great plans to improve the future of his empire....he then had to do everything he could to provide the necessary tools to accomplish his new Empire....But then...his dream came in conflict with other nations cauz they did not want to become a part of his Empire...so they fought for their survival.

Ok..now....The USA had a dream...the american dream...it was to create the strongest, largest, best country in the world.....in order to accomplish that dream...this country had to get the most ressources, the best technologies, the best bla bla.....but then...to get those ressources..they either have to pay for those ressources....or get them by every means....just look at the Gulf war...and Iraq war...and Afdghan War...its all about pretroleum products....theyt say its for the well beingh of human..but hey...2 millions black people died in Rouanda and they didn't do much about it..why? cauz there is no good ressources in Rouanda.... so why spend billions when there is no profit at the end of the line?

So....by trying to be the biggest empire....the USA is turning more and more ennemies against them....but then you say its right cauz its your dream..but then if you had been a Nazi you would have thought it was right cauz it would have been your dream....its only a matter of perception....the Good americans..the bad nazis...the good american..the bad Russians....

this is what i've been trying to say throughout my post....you may think its good...but mUslim think its not...Russians think its not..CHinese think its not....and so it goes on.... cauz they dont think like you do....so why would you say your way of life is the best? you say so cauz you have been told so...but if you would have been born in Morocco...you would not think that living like we do is the Correct way to live....

and then if you say we don't care cauz we are the strongest and they will have to change..then i sAY HAIL TO BUSH....( which is a reference to my first political post here where i was saying that Bush reminded me of hitler)...

Anyways..this will be my last political post here so i guess you can all be happy now..
Take care
Max
 

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If the court systems ACTUALLY enforced the laws in the US, the crime would not be as bad as it is. When you spend millions and millions of dollars to sue Tobacco companies when you took it opon yourself to consume the product, then they should not be liable. You were warned of the possible effects.

The only way the US will actually compete in a world economy is if one of two things happen. The World will have to bring thier cost of living up to the US, or the US will have to lower thiers. The latter of the two will happen, just give it time. Local buisness cry about the internet sales. They can not compete against eBay sellers and such. Even the states complain about the loss of revenue from sales tax because someone buys something online. They expect us to save reciepts then pay the tax at the end of the year. Kiss off!!! What is fair is fair. When US buisnesses can not compete with China, India, Tiawan, etc. because of the wage differences, the lack of a formal EPA, OSHA, Retirement, etc. we are going to loose. World economy is a good idea, it just doesn't work. Before we all move into disease ridden streets with people urinating and deficating into a ditch in the front of our house with our fellow neighbors and friends, we need to stop this. it isn't working. How can we compete in this world economy?


Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
where to begin with this one. Caymens is easiest. I agree with a lot of what you said. Just not sure how it should be fixed!

Anyway if I hear one more Nazi-Bush comparison I'm going to go nuts. Does no one know anything about WWII!? Really I mean it was only one of the largest world shapping events in history. Thank god my father has a history degree specializing in WWII... which he hasn't used since he graduated by the way :) But he does love learning about the worlds history so I can be thankfull I've gotten some of that myself.

Hitler was a insane guy bent on world domination. He murdered millions of jews along his way. Not to mention all of the people in all the countries he invaded for his world domination. Bush is acting for the US PEOPLE....elected by us. For at most 8 years. There is no way he can do it any longer than that and that is only if we allow him. Even if he wanted total world domination how the hell do you think he would be able to do it?

Now you can compare us invading countries if you want... thats where it ends. Did we go into Afghanistan (sp?) and round up millions of muslims to leave in consintration camps until they were so horrible mall nurrished we finally threw their asses in a chamber and poured gas in it so they could die a nice slow painfull death? Sure we grabbed some people and threw them in "GETMO". However...they have three meals a day, a clean place to live, and access to whatever religious people/items they may need. I do worry that some of these people may have no business being there BUT if for those that are innocent you better beleive they would rather be there than any Nazi consintration camp.

Now I know we went to afghanistan because thats where bin laden and his thugs were hanging out. It also happened to be a place where the people were horrible repressed. Remember 9/11? I do. I've had a flag on my house ever since that day. Not because I feel the need to be apart of the "American Reich" as you people seem to think. But because I feel it is a symbol of freedom and people need to be reminded of that every day.

You say it was for oil? Cool ask the average Afghan residant if they prefer being able to choose their own facial hair length, whether they want to be able to listen to the radio, watch TV, educate their children, or have a basic consitution that will assure them and their children that they have basic rights and their goverenment can not take them away. These are all things they have today thanks to US and coalition forces. Now ask them if they care if we gave them all this for 5 cents off each gallon of gas sold in the US? Now this is totaly ignoring the fact that most of Afghanistan and Iraqs oil goes to the UK not us!!!

Iraq is a hard topic thats for sure. When we went into this I was glad for the Iraqi people. And that it would make some major changes in the region. Not because of WMD. What worries me now is that the WMD seem to be gone. No country believed they didn't have them. Not one stood up at the UN for any of the 14 (I think it was 14) resolutions saying we know you have them its time to come clean and said they wait no they don't. Hell he even used them against Iran. He had them after the Gulf war (You know number 1) and we got rid of a lot of them but not all of them. So where did they go? Did saddam get rid of them and then continue to act like he had them to threaten those people around him? Did he sell them? Or are they barried some where that we may not find until something goes horrible wrong? None of these effect us going there though. He was a threat whether he was making false threats or not. He isn't a threat anymore though thankfully. At least now we can start to learn the truth. hopefully we find them soon so they can be disposed of. Give Iraq 5-10 years and they will be a major world player. Once they get some decent goverment in place to help their people and their people... who are some of the most literate in the world start learning how to take advantage of their freedom they will do great things.


crap this is a long post! I have a heator core to bypass on my sisters truck let alone all my other work...
 
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