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Discussion Starter #1
95 Escort LX wagon :

When installing a rebuilt engine I used a new oil pan gasket, following the service manual
for tightening sequence and torque.

But almost immediately it leaked right at front-middle where the pan crosses over the oil pump -
not a stream, but quite a drop, drop, drop. It's not the front seal - I thoroughly checked to make sure.

Basically I'm wondering if I can use the RTV silicone to fix the problem, and how I would do that.

Where the oil pump mates with the block it's not absolutely flush, but within the 0 - 1.08mm tolerance -
about 1mm higher than the block I would say - as it's installed in the car - or 1mm lower if you had the engine upside down..
So I'm sure the result of that is less pressure on that area right under the front crank seal.

So, can I just take the pan off and run a bead of RTV silicone along with the gasket ?
I don't use the stuff too much actually.
(I did use it at the four corners of the block where the service manual advises.)
The gasket itself is like a bead of rubber that sticks up from the pan about 2-3mm -
should I run a bead on top of it - or on each side - something else ?

Thanks,
Kent
 

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Use Permatex Form-A-Gasket instead. The RTV will not hold up in contact with oil/fuel. I've used the Permatex MANY times and have never had a failour as a result of it breaking down. The RTV WILL brake down and be useless in short order.

Many years ago Ford suggested using the RTV to seal the front and rear mains when a split gasket was used. EVERY ONE of those small block fords leaked at both ends. Bad idea Ford! :mad: :lol:
 

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dave8338 said:
Use Permatex Form-A-Gasket instead.
I agree with the above statement. In fact, I would have done it on the original install, meaning that I catually use form a gasket or regular permatex to effectively glue the gasket on completely. I figure that if I ever have to redo it I can just use a wire brush to remove it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hmm, that's interesting.

So I'm looking at the Permatex site now . . .

Under Gaskets > Sealants :
  • -- Permatex Form-A-Gasket No. 2 Sealant, which is recommended for oil pan gaskets. But you have to spread it with a spatula, and you get the impression from the data sheet that it's made for flat gaskets. Of these two it seems like the most appropriate.

    -- Permatex 1372 High Temperature Form-A-Gasket Sealant, but for that one they don't say anything about oil pan applications.

    Both of these are listed as "Sealants".
    I'm wondering about this though, as I don't have a flat gasket - it's more like a 5/16" diam. tube, half of which fits into a groove in the pan.

Then under Gaskets > Gasket Makers :
  • -- Permatex Ultra Black Maximum Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker which is the one cross referenced to the one called out in the service manual, and the one I used at the block corners. The description has quite a spiel about "OEM specified. For dealership warranty requirements, ensures extended drivetrain warranty compliance . . . Meets performance specs of OE silicone gaskets. . . "

    It did look fine in those small areas when I removed the pan. It's also listed as a "Gasket Maker", high temp, and recommended for oil pans. Up until now I was thinking of running a bead of this just inside the pan gasket.

But you guys think I should use the Form-A-Gasket Sealant instead ?

.
 

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FORM-A-GASKET! :>)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So I went down to talk to Ford/Service today to run it by them.

The parts guy said on new cars they don't use gaskets, just the high temp RTV gasket maker as above.
They didn't think the Form-a-Gasket was a good idea actually.

I'm not intending to be contentious though, just trying to listen to a variety of opinions. Definitely appreciate the input.

I'm wondering if you're basing your judgment on the old/original formulation of RTV, before they came up with one that is explicitly for (not only) oil pan gaskets.
I do see you like the Form-a-gasket though.

What is that stuff like anyway - is it flexible? sticky, more like construction adhesive ? removable ?
Maybe I should do half and half ;-)
 

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I say just use the oil resistant RTV. If it doesn't hold get the other stuff.
 

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I sucessfully used the Permatex® Ultra Black® Maximum Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker on one of those vertical transmission pans once. I would have preferred to use a eal gasket, but that would have been mail order only. It was on some type of Chrysler. Stopped a major major leak the nobody else could figure out how to fix (long story).
 

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I used the Ultra Gray RTV on the vertical transmission pan on my dads ZX2 after I did the 5th gear swap. No leaks after about a month.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I think I found out what the problem was . . . on this rebuild, the oil pump has a very rough, unfinished casting where the pan gasket would be landing on it - much more gritty than the one on my original engine. I smoothed it out ever so slightly with wet/dry sandpaper - despite the risk - just to remove some of the sand-like bumps.

Then I opted for placing a 1/8" bead of the "Ultra Black Maximum Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker" on top the Felpro pan gasket, just in the front area where it seals to the oil pump. I can see that it squeezed out a bit.
The stuff sticks really well to the gasket by the way, based on previous tests.

I hope I don't regret it. When I used it on the corners of the block eight months ago, it held up really well with no loss of integrity. We'll see.

Thanks everyone for your advice.
 

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Just wondering did felpro recommend a dry application? I am about to do the pan on my bronco and they say use no sealants.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I believe they did recommend dry actually.

And I dried the heck out of everything : First paint thinner to remove the liquid oil, then Dupont Prep Sol, which is a high grade solvent that dries without any residual - used for cleaning before paint jobs - then acetone.
Probably I overdid it, and could have left out one of the last two, but I wanted to maximize the chances that the RTV would stick and that the whole thing would be successful.

I had a special problem I was trying to solve so I needed to add something into the mix. I had used the "Permatex Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker" before, where you have to use it on the block corners (oil pump attachment to block, etc.) and I saw that it had bonded well to the gasket.

But in the other areas along the sides of the block, I had done it dry before, and there wasn't any leakage in those areas, or the rear, for that matter.
Just the front area where I now see there was roughness in the casting, so I used the RTV there.

So in general I would just follow the service manual, or Felpro's instructions, in normal circumstances. It's just that in the Escorts they recommend the extra RTV treatment in the corners.
 
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