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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
here´s a list of things needed for doing body work:

-drop cloth (old blankets or towels work fine)
-various grits of sandpaper: 60, 150, 220, and 400
-sanding block (for sanding small areas)
-DA sander (for sanding large areas)
-Bond-O (available at Wal-Mart in the automotive section....its a body filler)
-hardener for the Bond-O
-various sizes of plastic spreaders to work the Bond-O with (Bond-O brand)
-piece of cardboard (for mixing the bond-o and hardener)
-dent puller (looks like a big ass suction cup...your bathroom plunger will work too)
-a well ventilated area
-masks so you wont breathe in the Bond-O dust
-primer
-a few extra people wont hurt either...hehe but make sure you provide plenty of beer for them.
-well heated garage

try to pull dent out with dent puller first. if not then here is what to do next:

basically sand down the area to bond-o real good. sand it down smooth. take some bond-o and a small amount of hardner and mix it together until you get a salmon color (kinda pink color...should match the spreader color) mix it up real good and spread over the area you just sanded down...apply an even coat. let the bond-o harden. after the bond-o hardens up, sand smooth using the various grits of sandpaper. after you have sanded it smooth, apply more if necessary and repeat the steps. make sure bondo matches the body height. rub your hands over area to make sure there are no high or low spots still. if there is a high spot...just sand smooth. low spot, add bondo and sand smooth until it matches the height of the body panel. get rid of all the dust...blow it off, wipe it off...whatever you gotta do to get rid of it then primer it down.

thats the basics of doing it. i probably left some stuff so if anyone has anything to add, go ahead and add to it. i posted this someone asked how to do it in another post.
 

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-masks so you wont breathe in the Bond-O dust
lol I don´t recall seeing your mask laying around anywhere man? you´re snortin Bondo dust :-]
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
LOL u right.. i should follow my directions...LOL
 

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I´ve got a good deal of rust to fix on my scort, so chances are, when the weather warms up a tad, I´ll do this.

Anyway, most of it is just spot rust around the wheel wells, and other areas. Nothing too serious.

However, there´s this one section on the rear hatch that has COMPLETELY rusted through. You know where the lights for the rear liscense plate are? It´s right up in there where it´s rusted through. I´d like to fix it, but I don´t have a welder and I´m not sure exactly how welding works and how hard it would be to fix.

Likewise, I have one other "rust-through" spot in my car, and that´s in the spare tire compartment. I would like to fix this as well, but I´,m not sure if it´s possible to weld on a curved surface...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
u can weld on a curved surface
 

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%>[TR][TD]Quote:

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16-02-2003 at 16:01, siragan wrote:
Likewise, I have one other "rust-through" spot in my car, and that´s in the spare tire compartment. I would like to fix this as well, but I´,m not sure if it´s possible to weld on a curved surface...
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sure it is. if you got a ball peen hammer, time and a big piece of sheet metal. you could lay the metal out over the spot to be fixed and start hammering it into shape. I had to do that in class to do the door sill on the Bronco. spot welding is really easy. you take four prongs and clamp them down on the two pieces of metal and it heats up and welds the two pieces of metal together on those two little spots. hence the name "spot welding".

Another welding type is MIG. it uses argon(?) gas and a little wire thin piece of metal and when you press the lever the metal comes out of the tip and when it hits what you´re welding onto it melts and welds. However, for precision welding this isn´t the best method. After that, if necessary, you start with the bondo, sand, primer, sand, paint... but if you´re doing your trunk and spare tire area you won´t really need to paint it to make it look good, but you should to keep rust from forming.
 

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is it easy/worthwhile to do your own body work, im kinda dissapointed int the condition of my egt´s body. Rust around the wheel well and in my door fram around the window bug me alot, i want to fix it up, but i dont want to paint my entire car..

Im just waiting for someone to change lanes into the side of me so i can get at least 1/2 a new paintjob
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
you obviously havent seen mine then. it has dents all over it, little ding of what appears to have been hail hitting the car, the hatch thats on is all bentto shit, the wing looks like it was ripped right off the hatch, the hood looks like somebody tried to shut it while something was under the hood still and it has huge dents. its a mess and James can vouche for what it looks like. its gonna be ALOT of work but be well worth it once i get it straight...now if i can just find a heated garage to work on it, then i will be fine.....
 

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This welding thing...

Do I need a machine to weld? Like a little transformer box thingy? I have no idea how to weld and such and what I need and how much it will cost.

Also, how much is sheet metal?
 

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nuke your starting to sound like smith, lol. I am sooooo glad the paint on my mx-3 is in decent shape, thats alot of work. siragen it depends what kind of welding style you want to use. All the welder does is basically melt the metal VERY quickly by electricity therefor making it stick to another piece. Sheet metal prices vary alot depending on how thick the metal is, how much you buy, and where you buy it from... that said, in order to fix pieces that are rusted through you have to cut the piece out and bend a piece of metal to replace it, then tack it on with the welder, and basically do all of what was posted above.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
well u need a welder to weld...lol. if you dont know how to weld, find someone that does and make sure they know what they are doing. and if u looking for shet metal...go to a body shop and see if they got any old fenders or something like that laying around that you may get cheap or even free.
 

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I have seen welders from $100 to upwards of 50 grand, lol. If your looking for sheet metal just go to a machine shop. All welders work under the same idea, just go about it differently.
 

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Wow.....I hate to say it...but those body work tips won´t get you very far (no offence intended)

As for a welder...get a MIG welder with both Flux-cored and Gas options.
Around a 30-40 Amp one will do you fine. Use the .022 wire for doing sheet steel with MIG or the 0.30 Flux wire if you aren´t running the CO2/AR gas.

The strength of the weld is equal between the 2 types...but the Gas is A LOT cleaner of a weld, a lot less smoking/spattering and toxic fumes, the wire is cheaper, and the gas is cheap (after the initial cost of buying the tank)

I bought my Licoln Electric 110v dual MIG for $500 CDN. (it came with the regulator for the gas also...they sometimes don´t always so take a look first)

Skin steel for body work is usually around the 22 guage area...and you can get it at Autoparts stores or Metal supermarket stores (phone book...yellow pages)

Also when you weld on the new panel....do very small tack welds or the whole panel will warp all to hell on you.

As for getting rid of rust....you can sand it for all of eternity...and IT WILL still come back....you will always miss a couple of molecules of rust which will start the process underneith you repair (underplastic rusting)
The only 2 real ways of eliminating rust is Chemical dip (Lots of $$$$) or Sandblasting.

I bought a siphon feed blaster (50lb capacity) at Princess Auto Supply for about $100 CDN and the gun and lines were included.
A silica (white lightning) or glass bead or shreaded glass sand work great and are really fast cutting. I haven´t used Aluminum oxide yet so I can´t tell you how well that works.

And now for me to start ranting about the item we all know as Bondo and Dynatron :-Y

Basically..................it´s garbage...yes......I said it... Bondo is garbage. :-W

you might think it´s great at first....until it doesn´t cure very well and stays gooey for way too long....and gums up your sandpaper really bad!!!! BLAH!!!

Ok..there...done my Rant...back to getting things done

When you are ready to start glopping on the "fillers" (after you have ground down all of the tack welds on the panels) make sure yo do a surface cleaning with a good wax/silicone remover (I like Pro*Form...but there are a bunch of other brands)

Then there is a thin coat of any Short strand fibre glass polyester/styrene filler (Almost all of the types out there are just re-badged cans from the same supplier ColorFlo is a good, cheap example).

Sand that down so it´s slightly less then level with the surounding metal (clean with the solvent again...finger prints are brutal!)

Now comes the skin coats....the fun part

Get a good top coat filler (I said good!...so that means nothing from Bondo corp....including Dynaglass)
Half Time or Uberplast have very fast kick off times with the least amount of sand paper filling/gooing that I have ever used.
Now sand it level with the longest sander you can find....1/3 sheet or File/Board sanders.
Sand it smooth....you will probably need another very thin coat after that.
Remeber the being clean before you apply the next step is the most important thing!

Now prime the surface that has been sanded...including the existing paint that has been scuffed. This will tell you just how smooth it is.
Also wipe the whole area with varsol or somthing that has a high reflection to see if their is any distortion in the panel where you did the shave.
If there is....crack out the cleaner to get rid of the varsol...then sand it again and put another skin coat on....then prime and do the reflection test again.
Clean off that solvent and prime a bit more for the primer that was just taken off a bit by the cleaner...thne you are ´almost´ ready to paint the whole panel.......but that is another story

That is a good Idea of how to do a good bit of body work.....

Ther is also another line of products out there that are now starting to make MIG´s obsolete (in professional body shops I mean)
It´s a 2 part Urethane adhesive that was originally made by Duramix (3M and a bunch of other companies also have it now....even thogh Duramix still is the Leader in those adhesives....3M actually buys Duramix products and re-packages it as a 3M product!!!)...Oh...Norton is also one of the other good companies that is right behind Duramix
Use the urethane adhesive to stick a metal patch (22 guage, skin steel) to the panel (in the same way as you would have welded it) so there is still an indentation on the outside surface. Using the adhesive on the bare prepped metal will not let moisture get into the panel and you won´t have the potential for panel warpage if you MIG the patch on (MIG the peice on if you can´t find a Urethane body adhesive supplier)
NAPA/UAP and Carquest store can get this stuff...but the Dual gun costs about $90 CDN and you´ll also need a bunch of static mixing tips along with the "glue" tubes which are $40 each.

Hope this clairifies somethings (even though I probably just really confused everybody) :-]

Drew
´91 ELX H/B
´93 ELX Sedan


[ This message was edited by: Skuce on 17-02-2003 23:32 ]
 

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As for the Plunger and the Dust mask.

1) The plunger is only good for getting "soft" dents out......like someone leaning or a door panel...large dent, no creases
besides that it won´t work.

I´m not going to get into "paintless dent removal" here because I´ll go o forever again....lol :-] ....ask you local auto paint supply guy about it.

The old screw on the end of a slide hammer gets the job done.

2) The mask bit I really don´t like :-| .....a dust mask is almost useless if you are inhaling the all VOC´s off the filler anyways....ie. Cancer = Bad!!!

3M makes the best respirator out there yet...it´s a dual carbon filter with dual particulate filers covering the carbons. Runs around $50 CDN and it is WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!!!

An air filter is definetly something you NEVER want to skimp out on to save a few extra bucks.
 

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Well I spend 800 bucks on my GT. It´s not in perfect condition. Has a good deal of rust throughout the body and in the engine bay, certainly not in perfect condition.

I´d like to do this as cheaply and effectively as possible. I´d like to keep my supplies under 200 dollars to fix the majority of the body rust on my GT.

Is this possible or am I dreaming? Apparently, the rust WILL come back (which sucks) but how long will it take for this rust to come back? Chances are I´ll have my car for another 5 years or so before something craps out. I don´t want to dump a ton of money into it because quite frankly it´s not worthy of it. The condition just isn´t good enough.
 

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%>[TR][TD]Quote:

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16-02-2003 at 16:01, siragan wrote:
However, there´s this one section on the rear hatch that has COMPLETELY rusted through. You know where the lights for the rear liscense plate are? It´s right up in there where it´s rusted through. I´d like to fix it, but I don´t have a welder and I´m not sure exactly how welding works and how hard it would be to fix.
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It would probably make more sense just to find a better hatch off a junk car than to repair it if it´s rusted that severely. I mean you could probably pick one up pretty cheap at a junkyard, and it wouldn´t be that hard to swap them. just an idea
 

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Some good info on welding guys.. even having asked a lot about welding and watching it, and inspecting welds that friends have made, most of the intricacies are lost on me.. until now, thanks!

Anyone know how to "braze"?? My escort is nearly rust free, but another car of mine has a few places where the rust has etched into the lip that seals slip onto (like around the trunk and the windsheild) where it´s only one peice of sheetmetal thick, bondo is totally out of the question and slapping on some more metal that´s too thick will mean the seal won´t be even.. so I´ve been told that brazing should work.. only I don´t know how to do it.
 

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Plus you need a women in a scrawny bikni standing over you handing you everthing you need.. :)
 

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Thats what I did. Mine had rusted through in the same spot, right where the license plate lights go. So I went to the junkyark and found one in PERFECT condition, and best of all it was the same color too! Also, someone had installed crappy window tint on the old one and when I removed it I lost my rear defrost. The new hatch still has rear defrost and it works great. I don´t remember how much I payed, but I´m sure it would cost less that trying to fix it, plus it doesn´t take long to take the old one off and put the new one on. Now if I could only do that with all the other rust on my car...
 
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