[spearjh]

Hey all, it's been a long time. Used to hang around quite a bit, but sometimes life gets the best of you and you have less time for internet "procratination."

Anyway, my '97 LX wagon (2.0L SOHC) has developed a noise that seemed initially to just be a classic failing or misaligned pulley kind of thing. But that just doesn't seem to be it. Forget the serpentine belt area as running it with serp belt off is irrelevant. Same noise.

The timing belt kit (belt, tensioner water pump) is Gates and only like 45-50K old. Removed belt and tensioner. Spinning water pump with no belt - no sign of a problem. No weeping, no noise or roughness, no shaft play, etc. Simply no sign of a problem. Same with the tensioner pulley which was removed and played with. Smooth and quiet. Sprayed water onto the belt while running. Fussed with the tensioner while running. No changes. Ran all over everything with a stethoscope and a dowel. The sound just telegraphs so much - it's like everywhere and nowhere. I did pay special attn to tensioner and water pump probing for sounds, but all they do is hum.

Once the serp belt was off and it continued I figured water pump - and I could still believe that. But I try not to just throw parts at things and the water pump doesn't appear to be a problem.

Anyway, if you have 10 secs can you give it a listen and let me know if it sounds familiar?. Thanks!

 

[Gamer92]

Does it do it all the time or just when warmed up?

 

[spearjh]

Doh! Sorry- my post is incomplete b/c I added some info to the youtube text description w/ the video ... which only shows up in youtube, but not embedded here!

Anyway - from cold start it's quiet for like 30 secs. Then it starts and gets louder once the engine is warmed up.

 

[Gamer92]

Could be a lifter. Is oil clean?

 

[spearjh]

Oil's always been kept clean. I thought about lifters. But also thought it was far to much of a chirp rather than a clack / tick / etc. Besides, it would have to be a collapsed lifter which would be worst on initial start-up and then quiet down. So that's backwards.

I also went so far as to pull the oil cap and shove the hose of a stethoscope in there though! The noise isn't coming from under the valve cover.

I'm like 80% on timing kit problem, but hate whenever I'm 80% - change sh** and find it was a waste of time and money. So I try to avoid that. I just wish I'd found my water pump or tensioner pulley to be obviously noisy or whatever.

 

[Gamer92]

I had a noise about 5 years ago and it was this. That’s why I mentioned lifters. I thought I had a video but can’t find it atm.

I guess water pump or tensioner could be bad.

 

[denisond3]

In the Gamer92 picture I dont see the tappet guide; and the tappet guide retainer is broken in the middle. These are the names Ford uses in the Service Manual. The tappet guide is shaped like a figure eight (of stamped steel) and keeps two adjoining tappets so the rollers on the bottoms are lined up with the camshaft lobe. The tapper guide retainer just keeps the guide from getting bounced off. If you have a broken tappet guide, one or two of your tappets could be partly sideways, which would not only make a noise, but damage the cam lobe or the bottom of the tappet (I call them lifters, Ford uses the term "tappet".).
The Ford part number for the tappet guide is E7FZ-6K512-A and is labelled a "plate" on the plastic baggy. The tappet guide retainer is Ford pn. E7FZ-6C515-A, labelled a "retainer". Good luck finding these essential parts if you want an extra set. Four of each are needed for an engine head.

Another thing to check, is that the bolt on the camshaft sprocket is tightened up to 70-85 ft-lbs. If this bolt is not tight, the cam could be rotating relative to the cam sprocket, and wearing out the woodruff key. I would think this would make a noise. I stick a large-long screwdriver blade through one of the holes in the camshaft sprocket, to hold it from turning while I torque the bolt up. (This bolt should have a sealant on its threads, to keep the oil inside the camshaft from weeping out onto your timing belt.)

And of course, the bolt on the end of the crankshaft should be torqued up to 81-96 ft-lbs.

I second the opinion that you might have a bad bearing in the tensioner. I think they sell the tensioners separatey from the "timing belt kit". A neighbor had a new tensioner go bad after only 30k miles.

 

[spearjh]

Many thanks for the responses thus far. Esp. when Gamer92 mentioned valves, I should have also mentioned that we did pull the valve cover for a look-see. (Although it did seem apparent from pulling the oil cap that the noise wasn't from under there, it's so easy, why not?). But anyway, I did look at (and wiggle on) all the tappet guides as they seem flimsy things, but nothing was obviously amiss on the valve train.

And I also checked the cam and crank bolts. Actually, since we pulled the timing belt to check the water pump and tensioner, the crank bolt was r&r'd so I know that's not it. The cam seal is leaky, but I can't think of a way that it would end up making noise.

In any case, this is unheard of for me, but I am so low on time/attention/energy right now that I'm just going to drive it to my shop and have them figure it out. Other than exhaust/tires/alignment, the last time anyone but me worked on this car? I can't even remember. But it's where I am right now.

I'll post a follow-up. It's probably going to say a new timing kit fixed it... And then I'll kick myself for not having just done it.

 

[Gamer92]

Did anyone remove the side to side crossmember on the bottom? I’ve had a bolt or two loose on that and it made a rattle. Might want to check those 4 bolts, I think they are 17s

 

[spearjh]

Did anyone remove the side to side crossmember on the bottom? I’ve had a bolt or two loose on that and it made a rattle. Might want to check those 4 bolts, I think they are 17s

I did run around looking for loose bolts for weird vibration potential. Didn't check those, but noise does seem to be more up top than down bottom. But I'll have a few mins to look tomorrow before going to the shop. Thanks.

 

[pextor]

When my tensioner was bad it made noise but it didn't sound like that at all.

The belt was just flopping around but it never skipped time.

 

[spearjh]

When my tensioner was bad it made noise but it didn't sound like that at all.

The belt was just flopping around but it never skipped time.

Yeah, that would be a worn out spring in the tensioner with the belt flapping and hitting the cover. I'm guessing more a bearing in early failure rather than a problem with tension. Whether tensioner or water pump IDK if they're balls or rollers, but one or the other. The cover came off during the search - no noticeable looseness in the belt. It's also worse at idle than revved up. (At least going by sound which gets harder to tell when you rev it).

Anyway. I'm more than swamped with work - drowning in it, so I don't have time. Rather mess with it myself, but dropped it at my shop. I'll report back.

 

[denisond3]

If your car has a.c. the pulley on the compressor rides on a small ball bearing for which there is no way to lubricate. You can only take the compressor off, take the clutch pulley assembly to someone with a good hydraulic press, and get the bearing replaced. And it seems too easy to bend the clutch pulley in doing so.

None of my escorts have a working zc. system anymore.

I have removed the compressor and installed a "compressor bypass pulley", just so I dont have a 25-29 year old bearing when driving long trips. Unfortunately the bypass pulley is made of plastic, with a bearing in its hub about the same size as the one in the serpentine bet idler and tensioner pulleys. So I dont expect it to last nearly as long as the one that came with the a.c. compressor.