GTX vs stock 1.8 | Ford Escort Owners Association (FEOA)
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GTX vs stock 1.8

Discussion in 'Engine Tuning' started by LilCe, Oct 15, 2003.

  1. LilCe

    LilCe Guest

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    what is the biggest difference between the gtx and the stock 1.8 besides the turbo? i know the manifold on the gtx is made to handle the turbo and so is the ecu, but is that about it? i'm asking because i have a turbo, but i blew my head gasket. i was thinking of doing the swap thing, but i was also thinking of just getting another stock gt engine or rebuilding mine and putting the turbo and the manifold off a gtx on it. i think that would save me some money and i won't have to wait for the engine, but am i thinking right or is it more to the gtx than the turbo? well if anyone can help me i would appreciate it. i have $1000 and i'm just wondering the best way to spend it.
  2. 91sleeper

    91sleeper Moderator

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    The GTX has a lower compression ratio, different manifolds, and some other minor things as well. The stock NA BP has been proven to handle 15psi with the correct fuel management and tuning, so you might want to just go that route. Also the stock NA BP head actually flows better than the GTX head and is a common swap for the GTX engine. A couple things there for you to think about :wink:.
  3. TheBlade

    TheBlade Guest

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    Mike's right...

    The BPT is 8.8:1 while the BPD is 9.0:1
    There's a guy named Dave Lauzier in Canada running a Mazda MX3 with a Protege BPD. His stock motor is actually holding 30psi ! He's running a custom tuned piggyback fuel and timing control.

    A week from this Saturday I'll be hitting the track with race gas, my new centerforce dual friction, and new fuel pressure regulator. I want to run the scort a few times @ 8psi and a time or two at 10psi, and then one run with the timing pulled back at 13-14psi.

    Everytime I've done an estimate for HP and Torque ratings I've used a head VE of 84%. I'm sure the BPD is better then that, but makes for a slight underestimation.

    The BPT (GTX) and BPD use the same crank and rods, but the pistons are different. I've tried looking for replacement headgaskets and found that Felpro is pretty much the only company that makes a replacement. Its their tri-metal gasket....so I'm guessing the BPD's head gasket is the same as the BPT.

    I know that the BPT (GTR) actually uses different rods and a some other internals that are a little different. I think the oil passages are enlarged for a heavier weight race oil.
  4. Beaverboy

    Beaverboy Guest

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    also, isn't the BPT from the GTX a 1.6L?
  5. Whig-It

    Whig-It Guest

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    yes and no. there is a 1.6L GTX, and a 1.8L GTX the 1.6 came in american 323's, and the 1.8 came form jap 323's
  6. Jeffescortlx

    Jeffescortlx FEOA Member

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    So basicly, the stock GT motor with a forged set of 8.8:1 pistons could be just as strong as a GTX but flow better?

    To make your GT a comparible GTX you would need:
    Pistons = $600??
    Turbo Manifold= $200??
    Turbo= $300??

    So for around $1100 you could have a better vertion of a GTX?
    A GTX motor runs about $900-1200 ??
  7. LilCe

    LilCe Guest

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    i think thats what i'm going to do. the engine would be nice just to say that i did the swap, but in the long run its not really the best choice. i can lower the compression by getting a thicker head gasket, and i have a turbo and an intercooler so thats not a problem. i guess i will just get another gt motor. if anyone is selling one let me know. i'm going to go to the junk yard tomorrow and look for one.
  8. James92Scort

    James92Scort Guest

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    uh.......you'd need quite a bit more than that. :wink:

    GTX manifold= $200
    Turbo= (I bought mine for $125, Garrett T3)
    Exhaust to manifold adapter= $20 off Ebay
    New Fuel Pump/injectors to handle the load= $40 to $200 depending on if you go new or do some junkyard hunting.
    Exhaust system to maximize flow, say a 2.5" catback from barend.com= $360
    Intercooler= $50-200 also depending on if you go new or do some junkyard hunting.

    Just to be on the safe side...
    Fuel controller=$150 I'm guessing?
    Boost, A/F, Volt, Oil pressure gauges= $20 to $100

    If you get really crazy you could do some porting and polishing and a whole intake setup. Then you'd want your shifter to not feel mushy and non responsive... another $150. Then you'd want new shifter bushings, $20. Then your steering would feel like crap, another $20 for rack and pinion bushings.

    One thing will lead to another, and you'll have quite a bit more than just the engine sucking money from you. But hey, you'll have one hell of a sleeper. :D

    Edit: You don't necessarily NEED new pistons, you can keep your 9.0:1 ratio and with the T3 like I have at 14 psi (that the BPD can handle, stock) you would make over 180 hp and there is no need to change the rods.
  9. TheBlade

    TheBlade Guest

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    Hey I have to get to class, but here's an idea of what I spent my cash on:

    Turbo, manifold, downpipe, = $477
    Exhaust flexpipe = 60
    Intercooler = 200
    IC piping = 350
    BOV = 130
    Fuel pump = 150
    Fuel press reg = 130
    Fuel Press riser = 120
    MSD 300
    Apexi S-AFC 300 (total after install)
    Apexi AVC-R 300
    Apexi EGT gauge (I paid 100, its regularly 385)
    Apexi Turbo Timer = 100
    Boost Gauge = 65
    Fuel Pressure Gauge = 50
    A-Pillar Pod = 25
    Oil fittings and lines = 30
    Coolant fittings and lines = 35
    Fittings and hosing --- ???? Way too much on little stuff
    Check Valves = 45
    ABS piping = (you can do it for like 50, if you pay for the IC piping to be done right...I tried maching up my IC pipe in ABS so a shop could copy it...so I've spent probably 180-200)

    Injectors = 71 bucks


    I may have left some stuff out, but I have to get to class. Hope it helps with some perspective

    ps

    That's not touching the motor...going into the motor here's a ballpark

    Headgasket (www.felprogaskets.com) = 180
    Rods and bearings ~ 4-500
    Pistons and rings ~ 4-500
    Valves = 8 bucks each for high temp exhaust valves
    5 each for intake
    Guides = ??
    Springs ~ set for 120
    Cam gears = 360
    Throttle Body (bullfrog) = 350
    Plus milling and port/polish/valve work with the head in labor ~ 800-1000
  10. Jeffescortlx

    Jeffescortlx FEOA Member

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    The reason I did'nt include the :
    Intercooler, Fuel pump, Exhaust system, gauges, AFC + misc fuel management....
    Is because when you buy a GTX motor, that stuff is not included.
    If you noticed my post was'nt "How do you turbo a GT". My post was what would it take to make a stock 1.8 GT perform like a GTX. :wink:
  11. Trashknight

    Trashknight New Member

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    Now is that adapter for the turbo to bolt up to the gtx manifold? If it is that is pretty cool because i didnt even know they made adapters like that.
  12. James92Scort

    James92Scort Guest

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    Yep.

    it's a square piece that will bolt directly to the T3/T4 turbo exhaust inlet piece, and it's supposed to be able to be drilled and tapped so it will bolt onto the exhaust manifold, with a custom fit. I have it sittin around here somewhere. I bought it for 20 bucks.
  13. LilCe

    LilCe Guest

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    this info is really helping me out :D keep it coming. i will be doing some junkyard hunting tomorrow :lol:
  14. James92Scort

    James92Scort Guest

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    Yeah. But you should have included that as an extra expense. It's going to be expensive no matter which way you go. because if you want your car to run consistently, you're going to need the afc and fuel management systems to do so.
  15. TheBlade

    TheBlade Guest

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    Thanx for sticking up for me James...


    Well here's my opinion (you know cause I've been there)...Okay so you bolt your turbo up but dont think about the other stuff I've had experience with having to purchase....


    Then your scort sits there because it doesnt run! Okay so my scort is now pretty consistant with low 14 second cars in town and plays well with an RX7 that hit 13.9 last night. But still, you did say to "run like a GTX". GTX's use a side-mount IC and have a DV simular to a DSM.

    But then again, I have to admit; I didnt realize I would need all the extra crap until I tubo'd my escort. Guess its fair to expect wisdom to come after experience.

    Sucky part is now that my mechanical fuel system is almost complete and my Centerforce Dual Friction is getting installed tomorrow....my mechanic friend and I came to the conclusion...no matter how good my mechanical fuel system is, the real power is found in a stand alone fuel and ignition management system.

    So looks like I'll be saving for a SDSEFI system.
  16. ericg240

    ericg240 Guest

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    hey blade, how much hp would you say you have after you turbo'd your car?
  17. Jeffescortlx

    Jeffescortlx FEOA Member

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    Your missing my point, I understand there are misc parts needed. I'am simply comparing the GTX motor to a GT. My question was what is needed to make a GT motor as strong as a GTX (internals) the long block or posibly short block. This question has nothing to do about tunning, and the parts/money needed to do it.

    I have no desire to have a 1.8 turbo, I'm just curious to what it would take to make the stock 1.8 as strong as a GTX, thats all.
    If you look down in my signature, you would notice that I have turbo'd my scort, so I do have a under standing of the all the misc. parts needed to make a reliable turbo'd Escort.
  18. TheBlade

    TheBlade Guest

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    The BPD and BPT are about identical on their "strength" values. Just realize the BPD is slightly higher compression, so the BPT running 7psi is rated at 185hp and my BPD Turbo running 7psi is actually probably about 196hp

    With everything I've done right now I can hang with my friends Turbo'd Mazda MP3 and he's running 14.6 and dyno'd at 213 whp.
  19. LilCe

    LilCe Guest

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    how much power do u think 10-12 psi would give?
  20. Beaverboy

    Beaverboy Guest

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    I can't answer that.. but I can mention that without near perfect engine management, that much boost on a high compression motor would mean running race gas and/or retarding the timing. Usually retarding the timing hurts performance more than reducing the boost.

    If you're going for a track car, lower compression is your friend for high HP. If you're building a daily driver, low boost and a stock compression BPD may be better for you.. for throttle response, low end torque, low lag and much better fuel mileage.

    Once Blade gets his stand alone EFI system in he should be able to tune the motor to the point where he can increase the boost on pump gas and keep his timing maps advanced.. it's all about getting the right amount of fuel for a nice smooth burn.

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