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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys I need your help interpreting these dyno results. I just took my 93EGT to have it dynoed today expecting around 135 hp at the flywheel and that's probably what its pulling!!!

But the test results showed something else. I have all the graphs here for you to see...

First take a look at the test results...
http://members.rogers.com/saj76/SajEscDynoWheel.JPG

It shows max horse power of 111.7 at the WHEEL. People talk about the classic 15 to 20% powertrain loss. The guy measured mine for me and this is what he found...

http://members.rogers.com/saj76/SajEscHPdrop2.jpg

He found 61.3 hp of powertrain loss at peak hp rpm of 6450.

I find this hard to believe and this is why I need your guys help. First of all if this 61.3 hp powertrain loss figure was true, then my car must be making 172.9 or 173 hp at the flywheel.

I don't see how that's possible??? I only have a 93 EGT with a pacesetter header and very custom, nice exhaust (3 inch pipes), and a filter on my intake. That's it. At most that's going to give me 140 hp; not 170!!!

So all I can think is that the machine or the guy made a mistake taking the powertrain loss test/measurement.

And I find it very disturbing that I'm losing 60 hp to powertrain loss. I like to think of my car as efficient.

Oh well.

Please somebody who has an idea as to what's going on; help me interpret these results. 8O
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I found a good site that helped me analyse this...
http://www.car-videos.com/articles/hors ... torque.asp

It showed that up to 20% driveline loss from the flywheel is normal. And if I use 140 hp as my expected for my flywheel and take off 20% from that, I get 140*(100%-80%)=140*0.8=112hp

And I got 111.7 hp and 110.3 ft lb torque at 6450 rpm at the wheel, adjust that by 20% and I get...

140 hp and 138 ft-lb at 6450 rpm at the flywheel. May be more if my driveline loss is as high as he says it is.

I'm happy. That's all the power I really need. I don't plan on racing with my car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Have what???

My car is bone stock!!!! Its just got some basic body work to it... All I got is a pacesetter header, an exahaust and a filter on my intake. That's it. And a whole bunch of LOVE :lol:

I love my escort. :) I've loved all my cars :)

Anyway, if you want to do a dyno... I'm sure you could find a cheap place to do it. You should probably do one. Its fun watching the guy and talking to him.

The one place wanted $115 canadian for it and I was like yeah right you can kiss my butt but then I found a place for $60 Canadian. But I'm sure you could find one a lot cheaper where you live.

I'm very poor myself.

That's why I drive the speed limit now and just coast. :)
:wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ETX Bellisimo (or Bellisio or something) They are 17 * 7 or 17 * 7.5 I don't remember which. They are on the internet though.

Look up ETX, then you'll find all the wheel made by them.

Next time I might have gone for 18's but they would have created a lot of other problems: harsh ride, speedometer off, rubbing,etc.

So maybe 17's are max. Could have even gone with 19's I know that for a fact.
 

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i'll tell ya the same thing sleepergtx told ya, cause I am him :D

Drive line losses include a LOT of things. first off, ANY vibration, or any electrical spark that isn't grounded will cause loss of minimal hp. A crankshaft/piston combination that isn't balanced, a heavy flywheel (more rotating mass), slipping clutchings, gears that are going bad (getting stripped), drive axles that are old, bad CV joints, offbalanced rotors, heavy wheels, tires with compromised tread lose traction. these will all skew the results and end up making you lose minimal power.

It just depends on how your car is set up and how well it's been taken care of. 61% drivetrain loss *IS* possible. but on a properly built, tuned, and maintained FWD car, it should be around 15% (I believe).
 

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James92Scort said:
Drive line losses include a LOT of things. first off, ANY vibration, or any electrical spark that isn't grounded will cause loss of minimal hp. A crankshaft/piston combination that isn't balanced, a heavy flywheel (more rotating mass), quote]

you're right on everything except that. :) these problems will pull power from the flywheel itself.. the drivetrain has nothing to do with these problems.

as for losing 61%, your clutch would have to be slipping so bad that it would have completely went out and melted itself into obvlivion on the way to the dyno. 61% drivetrain loss is not possible.
 

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TitoElSpicco said:
you're right on everything except that. :) these problems will pull power from the flywheel itself.. the drivetrain has nothing to do with these problems.

as for losing 61%, your clutch would have to be slipping so bad that it would have completely went out and melted itself into obvlivion on the way to the dyno. 61% drivetrain loss is not possible.
Well they're not part of the actual drivetrain themselves BUT you do lose minimal amounts of power through a heavy flywheel, unbalanced assembly and a slipping clutch.

If you're losing 61% of your hp and still put 111.6? to the ground then you're making 181 hp at the flywheel. There's more than just bad clutch slippage that drops power output that drastically.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
2. sleepergtx, thanks for your input; that really helped me understand driveline loss. I've got heavy wheels, heavy spacers (2lb each) on my wheels, heavy flywheel, etc), my cv joint may be bad, the axels are old, I don't know if the gears are stripped but the car is 10 years old!!! . So I know driveline loss is building. But its not 61% driveline loss. He said it is 61 HP driveline loss which is 61/140 = 44% driveline loss. That's huge. But I don't think that's possible because it would imply that the almost stock escort is putting out 173 hp (111.7 (wheels) + 61 driveline loss). That's impossible.

I think the car is putting out anywhere from 136 - 144 hp with a driveline loss of 16-23%. That's my educated guess. Come on 44%... As if. That implies everything is going wrong with my car..

What do you think???

181 hp at the flywheel
O.k. clearly that has to be wrong. The error is not coming from us but from the guy who did the dyno test. He has calculated an driveline loss of 61 hp but I don't think that is correct as I said above. But then we have to explain how did he make a mistake like that. I know my escort doesn't put out 173 hp. Where did this guy go wrong?

I'll go and visit him tomorrow and TRY to get some answers.
 

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Sajeevan said:
2. sleepergtx, thanks for your input; that really helped me understand driveline loss. I've got heavy wheels, heavy spacers (2lb each) on my wheels, heavy flywheel, etc), my cv joint may be bad, the axels are old, I don't know if the gears are stripped but the car is 10 years old!!! . So I know driveline loss is building. But its not 61% driveline loss. He said it is 61 HP driveline loss which is 61/140 = 44% driveline loss. That's huge. But I don't think that's possible because it would imply that the almost stock escort is putting out 173 hp (111.7 (wheels) + 61 driveline loss). That's impossible.

I think the car is putting out anywhere from 136 - 144 hp with a driveline loss of 16-23%. That's my educated guess. Come on 44%... As if. That implies everything is going wrong with my car..

What do you think???
lol sounds like a good guest-imate :wink: I want to see you run at the track to see what kinda times you're puttin down. You gotta be close to breaking into the high 15s. but of course those nice ass rims you got weigh you down.

One thing is agreed on, you are putting down more power than any fully STOCK EGT, like mine...so far. The paycheck after the next (2, I get paid twice next week) might entail buying a GTX header from corksport.com. My gauges and stainless-mesh intake are coming soon, and I sent the money order for my turbocharger to roboskittle today. :D

I can't wait...7 psi, 150-170 hp (estimated). I might be able to bury my speedo after that. :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Wow sounds NICE!!!

I decided... I don't think I'm spending any more big money on my escort. I'm only going to spend money on my escort to make to run smoother, to have better fuel economy, to have gps/high tech gagetry.
Polish up where the paint is out of shape, etc.

I want to make my escort run 500,000 km's. :D

I take good care of her.

I plan to drive at the speed limit with my underbody neons on and just coast. I love my escort. :D

Thank you for your help understanding my results James92Scort. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Pics my car. I'm not submitting to the showroom.

Here is the answer to your question.

I've complied a list of pictures that have been posted of my car around various escort boards. But put together it looks nice.



Waring: My ISP is temporarily SLOW when displaying these pics. Tech support is working on it over the next 24 hours... Bare with me.

Nice shot of car in clear sunlight...
http://members.rogers.com/saj76/Escort/ ... July03.jpg

Back end of car: shows fin, tint, wide body kit and flares...
http://members.rogers.com/saj76/Escort/Bum.jpg

My 18 inch 4 inch voice coil Beyma subwoofers with my custom made box.... It sits in my garage waiting for my DJ friend to buy it. The box wasn't big enough for the speakers for them to work as they should.
http://members.rogers.com/saj76/Escort/Woofer2.jpg

My current sound setup... Two 12's that pump very well...
Artistic photo courtesy of shinybluescort.
http://members.rogers.com/saj76/Escort/ ... ound03.jpg

ETX belliso (bellisimo?), and VW rabbit fender flares with body work
http://members.rogers.com/saj76/Escort/Wheel.jpg

The hard work that went into making those fender flares. Done by a great guy called dave... Took 2 guys 3 days of 5 hours /day work to get those 4 flares and all the custom flaring done.
http://members.rogers.com/saj76/Escort/escort-dave.jpg

$4500 canadian for paint and bodywork. He gave me a good price because he's my friendly neighbour. :lol: He said he won't do it for anyone else. Too much work and not enough payback. So far I haven't seen him do it for anyone else.

Finally, here is an artistic picture by Skuce to finish everything off...
http://members.rogers.com/saj76/Escort/ArtisticPic.jpg
 

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dude... your GT would look sweeter than sweet with some BMW headlights. I'm spending the 200 bucks for a new set of ellipsoids for my 95GT with angeleyes because I love the lights so much. Right now I've got the E36 lights in my 91GT and not only is the beam pattern much better and brighter, but they're sweet looking to boot. Anyway, I highly recommend it if you've got the time and money. And yes, those fender flares look hott.

Anyway, here's some eyecandy. My 91GT w/ the E36 lights:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
siragan, I've seen these headlights around and I think they do look sweet. Tell me exactly what their name is so I can find them....

You said... "200 bucks for a new set of ellipsoids for my 95GT with angeleyes "

Can you give me a model number or part number or what BMW they came on. I don't think, that if searched for ellipsoids or angeleyes on google, that I would come up with anything. Never mind I found it thanks. Wow the angels eye don't come with it. You have to install them yourself. If it were up to me, I'd get a 6000 kelvin HID kit for it. Looks good though. Thanks for suggestion. Price looks like $400 us (http://www.europeanautosport.com/zkw.htm) not $200. So $600 canadian plus tax, plus install, plus HID --> sounds like $1500!!! Holy crap.

What do you think?? Maybe I should just stick with my stock lights and make MYSELF rich and not bmw and the installers rich... Sounds like a better idea to me. Unless you can convince me otherwise. I'm somebody who doesn't like to do halfass jobs. Either I don't do it, or I do it wicked.

:wink:
 

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Alright, the ellipsoid headlights are the "newer" version of the bmw headlight line. They have those glass ellipsoid lenses for the low beams and give an even better beam pattern then the previous version, which btw still totally rapes the beam pattern in the stock escort headlights. So it's pretty good light, and good light is an absolute must. First night going out with my 95GT with the stock headlights I almost hit a deer because I couldn't see it until it was almost too late. So I truly believe that good light is a must, especially when you live in the middle of nowhere and the deer outnumber the people. Ahem.

Anyway, the ellipsoids can be had for around 200 on ebay, like these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... gory=33710

However, I'm not 100% sure if the ellipsoids will fit. I may have to relocate the windshield washer resivoir and power steering res because the casing of the ellipsoids looks to be significantly deeper than the "4-series" E36 lights I used in my 91GT. So don't take my word on if the ellipsoids will fit in or not, I don't honeslty know.

However, the "old" 4-series E36 lights will fit. Those are the ones without the ellipsoid low beam lenses. I put those in my 91EGT and they fit, albeit with some significant modification to the headlight bracket and a few other things.
The "old" E36 headlights can be had for around 80-85 bucks on ebay. This auction seems to be bid on by a fellow feoa-er!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... gory=33710

Anyway, the angeleyes are a separate thing altogether. here's a pic of my angeleyes (the REAL ones, not the cheap ones they try to sell you as a kit with the ellipsoids) that I will be using with the ellipsoids when I get them installed. They were 60 bucks, but they're polycarb rings and they roxxor my boxxor (which is conveniently in the background of the pic). Anyway, any more questions, just axe.
<img src=http://home.twcny.rr.com/rensguns/lightrings.jpg height=300 width=400>
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm going to keep following you. When you sort out all the bugs with this thing, I'll join the band wagon. Its not such a huge deal to me that I'm willing to spend hours and hunreds and hundreds of dollars on it.

But thank you for opening my eyes to it. Now I know what my options are. I'm definately interested and I'll keep a check on you to see what's going on with your project.

I do like the angel eyes too.

Oh yeah, I have a question. What is the difference between HID 6000k and xenon. Which is brighter out of the two. I find that cars with such lights have eye piercing lights. This is not good. Its a danger to oncoming traffic; yet there is no government regulations about that. So I'm thinking, what the f***. I want some of those lights too. :lol:

If you have anything to say about this, sort me out. :wink:
 
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