Dropped valve seat survey | Page 20 | Ford Escort Owners Association (FEOA)

Dropped valve seat survey

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by zzyzzx, Apr 10, 2008.

?

Ever had the dreded dropped valve seat problem?

  1. Yes

    54 vote(s)
    60.7%
  2. No

    35 vote(s)
    39.3%
  1. PapaChach

    PapaChach FEOA Member

    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Way back when I had my dealers license I sold a clean Escort to a Type A personality guy. Two month later he said his mechanic said the engine was shot. He brought it in and there as a ticking in the motor, sounded terrible. I pulled the head and a chunk of the valve seat banged around in there and it looked terrible. I was shocked how well it was running in spite of the sound. Aside from a couple rusty gas tanks (other makes) it was the only warranty repair I ever had to do.
  2. Robby-joe

    Robby-joe FEOA Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    88
    293xxx 93 lx wagon, no dropped valve seats yet. New head gasket 2000 miles ago, intake, and exhaust gaskets, thermostat and gasket, polished the valves, New bew, New headbolts, New clutch, tires, coolant flush, fuel filter, oil changed pretty regularly, currently running rotella t, Bosch mileage plus filter. But I do have a slight tick, especially when cold, and it chugs like it's cammed.

    Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
    zzyzzx likes this.
  3. Tnashua

    Tnashua Gearhead / hot rodder with a soft spot for Scorts

    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    233
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    Oskaloosa, IA
    Yep- Another one bit the dust...
    I bought it NON-Running. Guy claimed that is was running a little rough & that he put new plugs & wires on it, but it didn't help. Said he'd started it a couple times just to keep the engine from locking up- never got around to fixing it- figured that the original 136K timing belt had slipped a tooth. At some point it quit starting for him...
    ANYWAYS- I bought it primarily for the newer radiator, bumper support, header panel, radiator surround and the color matching front end body parts. It would have been a bonus if the 136K engine was in decent shape- allowing me to slap a rebuilt head on it (for insurance) along with water pump. timing belt & tensioner- to have for a replacement motor for my 226K wagon- No dice!
    I took several picts, but have only gotten one uploaded to the computer so far. I wanted to post it- because of all the engines I've torn apart over the years- this one is by far the worst! Damage seems to have stayed in the #4 cylinder, but damaged it is... Check out the nice whole in the cylinder- explains why there was about a gallon of coolant in the oil when I drained it...
    2LValveDropCarnage.jpg
    Wonder what the seller's definition of running rough really is?! You'd think he'd recognize a metallic clanging/banging noise... Oh well- guess now I've got an answer to how thick the cylinder walls are. :)
    04Svt and zzyzzx like this.
  4. denisond3

    denisond3 Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,841
    Likes Received:
    2,630
    Trophy Points:
    563
    Location:
    south TX or northern VA
    As usual I have to wonder if a prior owner (prior to who you got it from) had experienced a dropped valve seat, and who had only replaced the engine head because the “cylinder walls looked undamaged” and there werent a lot of metal chunks sticking to the top of the piston. The two LX's I fixed up that had dropped a valve seat insert were both still running on 3 cylinders, so idled quite rough. One of them didnt make much noise either, as the “prior owner” had used it to drive to work a couple of days!

    Anyway, both of them turned out to have had pistons damaged by being squashed, the compression rings were stuck in the grooves, and the piston was slightly stiff on the wrist pin.


    Does anyone know for sure if an Escort piston has broken up without first having been hammered as a result of a dropped inlet valve seat?
    zzyzzx likes this.
  5. cwol97401

    cwol97401 FEOA Member

    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    221
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Midwestern Oregon
    When I dropped mine, it happened on startup so the block was not damaged. It did however damage the piston and rod. Had the block and crank checked and no damage there. Not even a scratch in the prior cylinder honing marks. Maybe I was just fortunate.

    Tapatalk
    zzyzzx likes this.
  6. Joey_Twowagons

    Joey_Twowagons FEOA Member

    Messages:
    1,997
    Likes Received:
    873
    Trophy Points:
    363
    Location:
    Vancouver Island, Canada
    Wow, that's the worst damage I've seen to an engine. But now you have lots of good spare parts, like three complete piston and rod assemblies for starters.
  7. 04Svt

    04Svt FEOA Member

    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Mine looked just like that picture above.
    150k I bought the car like that as well..sleeved the block and all is well now.
    I just finished another one but I was able to just hone the cylinders and install new Pistons and rebuilt head.
    zzyzzx and denisond3 like this.
  8. DangerRanger

    DangerRanger FEOA Member

    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Location:
    Howell, Michigan
    Had '93 wagon with about 220,000 on it that ran real sweet. My wife got a little upset one day and drove it at 100 mph for awhile and then after that I noticed it starting to push a little oil and one of the cylinders fouling out. Then one day she shut it off and I got in to drive , started it and 'bang, bang, bang '. Looking through the plug holes I discovered no. 3 wasn't moving. Later , while taking the motor out I took the oil pan off to find no.3 was still moving with the rod. It was now in two pieces. Put it in the garage, never did take the head off and still not sure if it dropped anything.
    Daughter had 2000 sedan with around 200,000. Dropped no.3 in that one for sure. I ran it way too much listening to it. Now it has a Zetec.
    Like I have stated before, this is the kind of thing that would make someone want to never, ever own another Ford product. Just the nature of it. Doesn't matter how you take care of it, how much you change the oil. One day it just self-destructs. My daughters car had 200,000 miles on it and you never put any oil in it, just change it once in a while till one day without any notice ' bang ' . ( or should I say ' bang, bang, bang ).
    I opted for the Zetec swap because I felt I could never trust another SPI for more than 10 minutes
  9. 04Svt

    04Svt FEOA Member

    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    73
    They are reliable motors just need hardened seats put in the head...never have problems again.
    Rafael D. likes this.
  10. sundance561

    sundance561 2B gravel

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    western pa.
    94 mercury tracer 112,000 miles,, running great then BANG,,, made one hell of a racket
    ran for about 15 seconds and that's all folks,, towed it home tore the motor down,,
    yep #4 intake valve gone,, well pulverized into the head camber.. not a mark on the cylinder wall thou going to load up some photos let everybody,,,, well keep updating let you know how its going...... going to rebuild the block and get a new head.....
  11. 04Svt

    04Svt FEOA Member

    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Make sure to clean the intake out really well, egr, iacv.
    Bits of metal from the valve seat like to stay in there . Will damage the fresh rebuild.
    denisond3 likes this.
  12. denisond3

    denisond3 Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,841
    Likes Received:
    2,630
    Trophy Points:
    563
    Location:
    south TX or northern VA
    Sundance561: I hope your planning includes taking the pistons out, to check that they arent distorted by the fragments of the sintered steel inlevt valve seats. When I fixed up the two 1,9L I bought that had dropped inlvet vlve seats, I got the bloc homed, put new rings on the good pistons and a piston I got from a 'arts engine'.
  13. Joey_Twowagons

    Joey_Twowagons FEOA Member

    Messages:
    1,997
    Likes Received:
    873
    Trophy Points:
    363
    Location:
    Vancouver Island, Canada
    Denisond, I like the idea of using a good used rod and piston, but I was thinking about the rings. Since the rings wear into the cylinder, I wonder if it would be better to use the original rings from the damaged piston, but transfer them to the replacement piston.

    One could mark the location of the ring gaps as the piston came out of the cylinder and so place the rings in the same orientation when the replacement piston was being installed.

    But maybe I'm overthinking this, and rings rotate around a little as the piston reciprocates, making this process moot.
  14. denisond3

    denisond3 Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,841
    Likes Received:
    2,630
    Trophy Points:
    563
    Location:
    south TX or northern VA
    I think the problem would be that the compression rings on a damaged piston would be damaged also, by the crushing and being held against the cylinder wall as the engine came to a stop immediately after the valve seat failure.
    rbailin likes this.
  15. 04Svt

    04Svt FEOA Member

    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Do not use the rings from a damaged piston.
    New Piston with new rings or pistons with rings depending on how many are damaged?
  16. DrewsBrews

    DrewsBrews FEOA Donator

    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    SW Ohio
    I reused the rings from the original piston on a junkyard piston, clocked like they were on the original. However the original piston pretty much immediately split the top off the skirt and never had the chance to pinch the rings... they were freely moving. Been doing ok for 12k mi so far. Doesn't smoke. Any oil loss I attribute to a leak I have been ignoring.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  17. 04Svt

    04Svt FEOA Member

    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Everyone I've done the rings get severely pinched. So that's why I say new rings.
    denisond3 likes this.
  18. denisond3

    denisond3 Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,841
    Likes Received:
    2,630
    Trophy Points:
    563
    Location:
    south TX or northern VA
    I agree with 04svt. New rings are a cheap investment. So is getting the cylinders honed.
    04Svt likes this.
  19. sundance561

    sundance561 2B gravel

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    western pa.
    evening I'm taking block to a engine shop where they are going to check the deck, check the bores of the cylinders,, then let me know before any other work is done then i'll have a good idea where I'm at if the block is good.. then they will hot tank the block, hone the cylinders all for $110.. I'm looking at a head on ebay foe $290 and a bottom rebuild kit
    denisond3 likes this.
  20. LilRedWagon92

    LilRedWagon92 One simply cannot own just one escort, its a drug.

    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Location:
    Norridge, IL
    1995 mercury tracer trio
    83k had to rebuild head because theromstat housing bolts broke
    89k dropped valve seat year and a half after rebuilt

Share This Page