Dropped valve seat survey | Page 19 | Ford Escort Owners Association (FEOA)

Dropped valve seat survey

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by zzyzzx, Apr 10, 2008.

?

Ever had the dreded dropped valve seat problem?

  1. Yes

    54 vote(s)
    60.7%
  2. No

    35 vote(s)
    39.3%
  1. denisond3

    denisond3 Moderator Staff Member

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    k24_member101: Please refresh my memory - what year is your Escort, and is it an LX or a GT, etc.
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  2. chestypuller

    chestypuller making the wifes commuter better

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    you guys are some real troopers!

    how many aftermarket heads have dropped seats?
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  3. denisond3

    denisond3 Moderator Staff Member

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    A good question! -though I have no idea.
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  4. k24_member101

    k24_member101 FEOA Member

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    Thank you so much for that. I have the Haynes repair manual but it only does so much . It's more or less "remove 3 bolts" ... Um ok ? size location place ?! Just remove three bolts . Lol and the wheel well I never thought of that! I can take the molding
    Off and get in it from there .


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  5. rbailin

    rbailin FEOA Member

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    In theory, zero. Aftermarket heads are supposed to be rebuilt with solid steel intake valve seats to prevent this from happening again. But years ago, the first rebuilt head I bought failed after 16 months and one of the seats came loose, but it didn't shatter or damage anything.
  6. k24_member101

    k24_member101 FEOA Member

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    I got my bore scope In just working second shift sucks I'm moving to first shift hopefully Monday which will give me afternoons to work on the car and get it done that much faster . If there's no damage on the cylinder heads from the spark plug hole I'm gana put it back together and just torque down the rocker arms if that works and stops the noise I'll order a new set of rockers and replace them to keep it clean


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  7. focus2000

    focus2000 FEOA Member

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    I got a gen 1 so no dropped valve seat, never seen one do so. GF has a gen 2 1993 with no problems yet, it seems like most the 91-93 1.9s don't have the problem like the 94 and up scorts.
  8. DrewsBrews

    DrewsBrews FEOA Donator

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    Just finished the tear down of mine. Happened less than a week ago. Stopped for gas and it dropped right as I fired it back up. Strange piston failure. The way it broke I'd figure the top would have been wedged sideways but it pushed out easily. The bore seems to have been saved by the skirt still being attached to the pin.

    Carnage pics:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  9. ShakeZilla19

    ShakeZilla19 My name is ^^^

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    Damn that sucks. The piston looks cool though. I would hang it on a wall or something.
  10. denisond3

    denisond3 Moderator Staff Member

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    How and Why? A dropped valve seat that stayed mostly in one piece, a piston that fractured halfway up? A new mystery - at least to me.
  11. Intuit

    Intuit FEOA Member

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    What does the head look like? Those red bolt sleeves off the piston-rod don't look OEM... not sure what they are.

    Looks like it dropped a horse shoe. I suspect that even with horse-drawn carriages, loosing 1/8 shoes was still pretty much a show-stopper.
  12. denisond3

    denisond3 Moderator Staff Member

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    I figured the red bolt sleeves were lengths of tubing slid onto the threaded con rod stud.
    I use 1" pieces of 3/8" fuel line on the con rod studs, to protect the journals on the crankshaft when removing/installing pistons & rods.
  13. cwol97401

    cwol97401 FEOA Member

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    So, it happened to my second escort last week. The first one happened a year avo and I didn't know what it was. This time it was on start up and the pieces stopped the motor on cranking. Pulled it all apart and took the head to a machine shop. It was barely damaged. They say the piston might be saveable too.

    Attached Files:

  14. denisond3

    denisond3 Moderator Staff Member

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    I hope you are going to remove the piston to assess any damage to it; the rings, the fit of the wrist pin in the piston. I would also include honing the block and putting new piston rings on all pistons after scraping the carbon from the ring grooves.
    I have fixed up eight 2nd gen Escorts engines for myself and family members. My standard procedure now includes checking the top of the block for corroded regions (such as likely exist around that rusted head bolt in the picture), and taking the block to my favorite machine shop to have the top of the block milled down a few thousandths (like .005"-.007" to eliminate the areas of black rust: Because I want that reworked/rebuilt head and new headgasket to hold up another 20 odd years.

    Any time I have an Escort engine block out of the car, I also now replace the five freeze plugs in the block; due to age. Its so much easier to do with the block sitting on a workbench. Replacing the largest freeze plug requires having the flywheel out of the way as well.
    I am presuming/hoping the rebuilt heads come with new freeze plugs installed.
  15. cwol97401

    cwol97401 FEOA Member

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    The offending piston is out of the car and at the machine shop with the head, I had one of the machinists look at the cylinders and says they look perfect. I've had the car for 30k miles and I think someone had been into the engine before. It still looks new inside. As for milling the block, I will ask him about that because he didn't mention it before. New rings are coming and if that piston is no good then new pistons all the way around also. Fwiw this is the first time I've been this deep into an engine so i do appreciate the advice.
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  16. DrewsBrews

    DrewsBrews FEOA Donator

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    Yep just used some hose I had on hand already in the trunk from a harbor freight fluid transfer pump. Technically it's too big for the threads, but it was crushed enough to grip. Only necessary for a few seconds anyway.

    The break was a mystery to me also. Doesn't make much sense, though it looks like similar things have happened. Damage to the head was similar to the piston... minimal.

    The fix ended up being a test of doing it wrong. Picked up a junkyard piston and reused the old rings from the busted piston. I made note of the way they were clocked to match it. Didn't hone the bore at all since those rings were happy in there before all this. It's not smoking at all. Too early to determine if there is any oil consumption.
  17. rbailin

    rbailin FEOA Member

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    The pistons in our engines are "hypereutetic", meaning that there's more silicon dissolved in the aluminum than it would normally accept. This makes the piston stronger and less subject to thermal expansion, but also extremely brittle. It wouldn't take much stress to shatter it like that without much visible damage.
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  18. zzyzzx

    zzyzzx FEOA Member

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    I do not recall that ever happening. My Jasper engine has 165K on it and is still doing fine.
  19. salvageyard saviour

    salvageyard saviour FEOA Member

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    I did almost the exact "fix" I have a 95 & 96 that ate the #4 at about the same time.
    I knocked a seat out from #2 on the 95 and took piston and valve from same cylinder(had the least damage).
    Cleaned the seat bore then pressed used seat in with lock-tight red and staked around the edge. Lapped the valve surface by hand and installed new stem seal. Honed cylinder wall because of scratches then put old rings on the swapped piston and used old bearings.
    Had engine past hot a few times (fan relay) still runs smooth and strong. compression just +/- 10 lbs off across all 4
    Total cost $55 that includes oil and filter.
    Did it just for fun and to see if I could :)
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  20. Joey_Twowagons

    Joey_Twowagons FEOA Member

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    The cylinder block in post #373 shows part of a head bolt in it... that is another issue to deal with.

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