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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just UpGraded a 93 Wagon from 175/70r13's to 185/60r15's. So, what do I do... about the Donut/Spare :?: A 15 Donut is just not going to fit in that little 13 hole. :!:
On one hand, I only used one twice in my life... so it just dead weight that I carry. :cry: On the other hand...
 

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You could use the 13" if the bolt pattern on the hub is the same. Mind you that this can really hurt your diff if you use it on the front wheels, so make sure not to drive fast if you do need it. Either way, as long as it can limp you to a place that can fix the flat, that's all you really need.

Or if you're like me, you can just run your car with a full set of spares all the time! MPG's, here I come! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
English

Beaverboy said:
For future reference, enlarging the circumference of your tires is not an upgrade.
My change in wheels was Diameter, Width, and Style... and tire change was from 175/70 (at 30%) to 185/60 (New)... speed rated changed from 85 to 130. To me this is an UPGRADE. 8)

My PHD's are in Computer Science and Divinity. So, I say what I mean, implications included, on a technical level... and forgive the Sinners. :lol:

So far, the only sound recommendation is to optionally carry a full size Spare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Cute

Electronikal said:
Get a spraycan of Fix-a-flat....will work if the tire is not all screwed up :p
I was under the impression that this stuff was bad for the Tires :?:
A Cell call for a Tow, I think, would be cheaper in the Long-run :!:

If the empty Cargo Area is maintained... would this not change the weight distribution of the vehicle :?:

On the other hand, a Full Spare will take out the Cargo space [If it will even fit in there]:!:
 

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It's only a different of a handful of lbs between a spare and fullsized, negligable, really. Removing alltogether is a bit more noticable, but nothing major. When I've needed to ride on my donut my fullsize fits in there.
 

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Re: English

lukerw said:
Beaverboy said:
For future reference, enlarging the circumference of your tires is not an upgrade.
My change in wheels was Diameter, Width, and Style... and tire change was from 175/70 (at 30%) to 185/60 (New)... speed rated changed from 85 to 130. To me this is an UPGRADE. 8)
You're right.. it is an upgrade. I was assuming (since you were saying something wouldn't fit) that you had significantly increased the size of your wheel/tire package.

In fact.. you made a tiny difference to the overall diameter.. 4.5%. What makes you think you need a 15" donut??? The diameter of the wheel has nothing to do with whether or not it will fit in the well, nor what size donut wheel you carry in the trunk.

It's an open diff FWD car.. even if it were off 10%.. it wouldn't matter. You shouldn't be driving very far or very fast on a donut anyway.
 

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Re: Empty Compartment

lukerw said:
Does anyone do something Special with the empty well :?:
An interesting thing to do is to make it a sub-woofer resonator kinda setup... slick, but y'gotta know what you're doing. Other stuff... I dunno, store your excessive luggage *coughdrugsandboozecough* there for long trips or something. Do what you want with it. I'd stick with a spare. Safe > sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Response to Beaverboy

A 13" Donut measures 20" in a Well that 22", diameters.
A 15" Donut measures 24", in diameter.
I am not guessing; I know this will not fit.

I have a Tower Strut Bar on the front, to keep the Give... away. But, not in the rear, because this is a Station Wagon (ie. Utility).
Given the centers of the Donut, a 1" Twist is the vehicle at the rear seems severe to me... especially, if I cannot predict what cargo or passengers that I will be carrying.
 

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.. again.. what makes you think you need a 15" donut? You increased the size of your wheels by 4.5%.. you're talking about increasing the size of your donut by 20%. It makes no sense.

I have a rear bar in my Wagon. It unbolts in under a minute. See my pics in the album.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
To Beaverboy

A Stress Analysis, computer, Program shows... given a rectangular plane, dimensioned & weighted as an Escort... that given a 2" height deviation at one corner [a mean of 1" in plane center]... that 400 pounds of Stress is exerted at the deviation. Given rear springs on an Escort are only rated at about 120 pounds [max HD at about 180 pounds]... Stress deforms components. Metal is not a material that returns to it's former shape [a memory material] when Stress is released. Thus, Structural Weaks occurs. This is the reason that people use Tower Strut Bars.

I will have to look into the rear Strut Bar.

P.S. This Wagon is from Atrick's, Fayetteville, N.C.
 

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You guys are making my head hurt. I think you are all over thinking this thing. I've had a bunch of cars with space saver spares and I don't believe that most of them were as large in diameter as the regular tires. For their intended use, it is okay.
As far as the the complicated explanation of the one inch, twist, computer generated deal, well my uneducated idea is that would be a bunch of crap the first time you went over a bump. We do not drive on entirely level surfaces.
Don't worry, keep your donut.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
re. Superdave

Correct me if I am wrong... but the "intended use" of a Donut is to Save Space, not to Use [except in an emergency].
Actually, Given the use of Donut, 13 on a car with standard 15's, I can extrapolate that hitting a Hole or Bump would break a Spring, due to the added stresses of the event. And, in fact, people break springs, just hitting holes or bumps... because of the Stress.
 

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Re: To Beaverboy

lukerw said:
A Stress Analysis, computer, Program shows... given a rectangular plane, dimensioned & weighted as an Escort... that given a 2" height deviation at one corner [a mean of 1" in plane center]... that 400 pounds of Stress is exerted at the deviation. Given rear springs on an Escort are only rated at about 120 pounds [max HD at about 180 pounds]... Stress deforms components. Metal is not a material that returns to it's former shape [a memory material] when Stress is released. Thus, Structural Weaks occurs. This is the reason that people use Tower Strut Bars.
The wheels are different diameters.. the tires aren't. Your car rides on the tires.. not the wheels. Your donut is fine.

There would only be a 1" deviance if you were riding on 3 15" wheels with no tires and 1 13" donut with no tire. The suspension is connected to the middle of the wheels, so it's the radius that matters.. 1". Since you have tires, the new ones you placed on the 15" wheels have 1" shorter sidewalls than those on the old 13" wheels, so it evens out.

Low pressure in one tire could easily result in a 1" difference.. 95% of the driving population parks their cars on driveways that have 1 wheel at least 1" away from the plane that the other 3 wheels rest in.. it doesn't destroy or distort the chassis or springs.

The springs are capable of holding much more than 180lbs. They might be rated at 180lbs/in..? The stock springs can safely hold the car without binding if you compress them down to the bumpstops.

and don't lecture me about body torsion, I know all about it:


Strut braces do not counter-act torsion. You would need a triangulated spar to do that type of bracing. A strut brace is used to keep consistent negative camber on strut suspensions while turning. A properly preloaded performance strut brace actually pulls the towers towards each other.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: To Beaverboy

Beaverboy said:
and don't lecture me about body torsion, I know all about it
I guess this says it all.

Here are some real cases:
A real wagon with standard 15" wheels (24" dia) has a 13" donut (20" dia) placed at the left rear wheel... the car simply sets for a month (vacation)... and the following year, 2 stress cracks appear: 1 at the right, top, front window pillar; 1 at the left, top, rear most, pillar like area. This would seem Stress Induced due to pressure at the left rear tire... where, in fact, a Donut had been used.
2 sixteen year old boys ride in the Cargo area of another wagon... both rear springs are later found to be broken.
My conclusion is that Donuts should never be used and that weight in the Cargo Area should be limited to under 200 pounds.
 

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ok guys, here's my two cents..
I've been driving cars for a few years, and i've never yet used my spare.. and i never will, because none of my cars have one, spare's gone, same goes with the jack which is about as useless as the spare at that point.. what's the point of a jack without the spare, right?!

for you guys that don't wanna take the small chance of leaving your spare and jack at home, where you can't get to it in the event of a flat in the middle of freakin' nowhere on a cold winter night way below freezing at 3 am....at least I won't freeze my a$$ off crawling on the ground jacking up my car, before putting that donut on, I'll turn my emergency flashers on and wait until someone stops..if that'll ever happen that is (chance for someone stopping is pretty good in the thumb of Michigan).... lol


oh...and what were those boys doing riding in the CARGO AREA anyway?? LOL oh...never mind...i just noticed you're living in the thumb... :)
 
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