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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just replaced the connecting rod bearings yesterday, they had wear and the knock sounded low in the engine. Started it up last night and it was still there. The engine runs rough and almost dies at idle. I ran synthetic oil in it about a month and a half ago, then it was low really quick, so I did a change back to standard oil. I have 180k on the engine, plus no money. Is it worth taking apart and repairing the pistons/rings? I just had a jy AT put on last fall when the other tranny died. As long as there isn't anything too elaborate to do I can fix it, preferably without puling the engine. Just need to know thoughts from anyone who has had a similar issue before putting too much into it.
 

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YUP, you can fix it BUT you would likely be better off finding one in a JY that has some life left in it.

KNOCKING,,,,,,,,,, MISSING,,,,,,,, RUNNING ROUGH ????

Sure sounds like a dropped valve seat...........

IF that's the case, you could be into a reman head, at least one piston and ring set, headgasket set, thermostat, complete tune up, etc.

Approx. $450.00

On the other hand, could be a spun main bearing and it's running rough because it's trying to lock up ???????????

NOT

Before you do anything, pull the valve cover and check all your lifters to see if one of them spun. I had one of my guide plates break a while back and it let one of the lifters turn degrees to the cam lobe. After it beat the side out of the lifter roller it made a knocking noise that sounded low in the block.

Sounds carry's inside an engine bay and it's sometimes hard to tell.

In any case, your not really going to know which direction to go until you do a little more digging to find out what's wrong and figure out what a repair will cost.

Used engine's are pretty cheap be comparison.

OR ARE THEY ???

I bought one that had been sitting on the shelf for 14 years. Had 31K on it. I didn't trust anything on it so replaced everything to make sure it didn't give me any problems. Eccientially, I bought a low mileage short block and built it up. ( Not recommended ) :eek:
 

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Engine Timing OK?



Used Crankshaft SPROKET Timing Pointer to get the block and head to TDC?
Easy to mistakely use the notch cut across the V groves of the Crankshaft
PULLEY to point to the Oil Pump housing notch. The SPROKET and PULLEY
marks are about 10 degrees apart on my 91'

I saw no one has responded to you. So I thought I'd offer this as a possibility.
Others here are certainly more capable then I. Fortunately
I've not had the knock you refer to, just lifter noise in the cylinder head.
 

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I bought a 94 1.9l that had a dropped valve seat. It made an engine knock that would have been audible 100' away in a Walmart parking lot. There were two pistons damaged by the bits of the valve seat being caught between the head and the piston crown. Both pistons were stiff on the wrist pin & the compression rings were stuck in the squeezed grooves - I got a JY engine and put new rings, bearings and seals in it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the replies, I am looking into what is going on, just took a shot in the dark with the connecting rod bearings. A friend that knows these cars thinks that if I had any wear on the crank from the bearings that it is most likely undersized and killing my oil pressure. I just did a timing belt in January when the tensioner pulley siezed up, I will look at that and the lifters as well. Again, I appreciate the help.
 

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I'm leaning towards a dropped valve seat. I hope it never happens to me. Up to this point, I guess I've been lucky up to this point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Would a dropped valve seat knoc intermittently, or all the time? I am gatting a second opinion tonight, I just hate to drive it if it could make things worse. I keep hoping to find something that I can fix without too much time or money involved, I have allot of one and none of the other. The car has seen me through allot, but it is running into money now, plus body rust and work to do. An 18 year old son driving it is not doing it any good either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That's reassuring and disturbing. I had them out on Monday to inspect and make turning the engine over easier with a ratchet, they looked good. I was told that the crank probably is worn undersized since the connecting rod bearings were worn, making it out of tolerance and killing my oil pressure. I want to check the lifters when I get home tonight to see if one is not locked in position, I just don't get the knocking being sporadic. If I had dropped a seat, even partially, I would think it would do it every revolution. But I am an electrician, learning to do mechanic work on my Escort. I have probably already done damage to the engine, I am just leary of driving it another 8 miles to mile friends house to have hime listen and check it out. Again, thanks for the feedback.
 

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Sparky34kv said:
Would a dropped valve seat knoc intermittently, or all the time? I am gatting a second opinion tonight, I just hate to drive it if it could make things worse. I keep hoping to find something that I can fix without too much time or money involved, I have allot of one and none of the other. The car has seen me through allot, but it is running into money now, plus body rust and work to do. An 18 year old son driving it is not doing it any good either.
When mine went, it sounded like there were rocks in the engine, or something.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
But, was it intermittent, or constant? That's what is eating at me, it idles rough and knocks, but not like it is every revolution-if you get what I mean. It has a loud tap at high rpm, but not while accelerating up to it, and the knock at idle is every few seconds. The engine turned over evenly with plugs out using a 1/2 ratchet and socket on the harmonic balancer bolt. When I checked the plugs for signs of running lean or rich they looked good, no dings or marks either. I plan to check the timing belt tonight or tomorrow to see if I jumped a tooth, but after all that I went through to find a tensioner pulley in January, I was careful to get everything right when I put it together.
 

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Well, from what you seen (or haven't seen) it doesn't sound like the valve seat. You mentioned that you put new rod bearings in. What was the reason for this? Low oil pressure?
Did you measure the journals or just put the standards back in?
Did you make sure that the cap bearing halves didn't end up on a rod?
Thrust bearing in correctly?
Sounds almost like a rod bearing to me as you mention that you can get the knock to come/go with RPM's...
Did you replace the oil pump while you were in there.
Check the pick up tube for blockage?
 

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Sparky34kv said:
I just replaced the connecting rod bearings yesterday, they had wear and the knock sounded low in the engine. Started it up last night and it was still there. The engine runs rough and almost dies at idle. I ran synthetic oil in it about a month and a half ago, then it was low really quick, so I did a change back to standard oil. I have 180k on the engine, plus no money. Is it worth taking apart and repairing the pistons/rings? I just had a jy AT put on last fall when the other tranny died. As long as there isn't anything too elaborate to do I can fix it, preferably without puling the engine. Just need to know thoughts from anyone who has had a similar issue before putting too much into it.
You won't be able to fix this without money but it doesn't cost anything to take it apart. Start with the head - it will have to come off regardless. If it's the lower end you will have to pull the motor at some point to machine the journals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
dave8338 said:
Well, from what you seen (or haven't seen) it doesn't sound like the valve seat. You mentioned that you put new rod bearings in. What was the reason for this? Low oil pressure?
Did you measure the journals or just put the standards back in?
Did you make sure that the cap bearing halves didn't end up on a rod?
Thrust bearing in correctly?
Sounds almost like a rod bearing to me as you mention that you can get the knock to come/go with RPM's...
Did you replace the oil pump while you were in there.
Check the pick up tube for blockage?
At the risk of sounding stoopid, they all looked the same. I saw a hole in each one. I knew it would not take much to check and change them, so I started there, with standard size. I did not measure the OD of the crankshaft journals. Thrust bearing? The pickup did not look blocked, but I did not change the oil pump. Could a bad oil pump cause a knock from supplying enough oil to the head and lifters?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks everyone for the help. I had a friend that knows these cars check it out last night, and he agrees it sounds and acts like a valve seat that coming out. So now I will start taking the head off tomorrow night and see haw bad it is. I plan to post progress and pics in the hopes it will help someone else with similar issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Finally got the head taken off. While it looks grimy inside, the pistons and cylinder walls look good. There doesn't appear to be any damage anywhere, but there are two valves that aren't seated with the crank at TDC. I am going to dissassemble it over the weekend, see what I can find. Pricing around for remanufactured is around $500, junkyard pull is $150, and a rebuilt from ebay is about $250 with a 1 year warranty. I have pics that I will post tonight, in case they are of help to anyone else in this spot. Depending on what I find i may just get the head I have repaired and re-assemble it and the car myself.
 

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If you have the head just as it came off the car, and you havent removed any rocker arms, valves, lifters or the camshaft, -then no matter where you turn the camshaft, there will always be a couple of valves that are open. When its a TDC for cylinder #1, the valves that would be open would be on the cylinder that is 'opposite' in the firing order: And that would be cylinder #3 I believe.
If you have the #4 inlet valve seat coming loose, it may not be obvious with the head at room temperature. Still, a decent machine shop should be able to tell if thats what is happening, once the valves are removed. Now that you have it off, I would take it to a machine shop if only to get it checked to see how much 'warp' there is, and whether it needs to be milled to be flat.
The thrust bearing is just the upper half of the center main bearing on the crankshaft. Its kind of hard to make it slide around to where you can slide a new one in - but if you didnt replace that one, I wouldnt worry about it. Its usually the lower half of main bearings that go bad, not the upper halves. With con rod bearings its the other way around. The upper halves of the con rod bearings are the ones that get the greater stress. If you had a rod bearing bad enough to be 'knocking' it would probably have been obvious (in comparison with the others) when you had the old ones all out.
A bad oil pump could result in bearing failure, BUT its unlikely. What would be much more likely would be someone letting the oil level in the oil pan get low enough that the pump was sucking air; and the oil pressure and flow would drop way down. I have never had this happen to my Escort, but on other engines, that much of a loss of oil pressure would result in increased lifter noise, until some oil was added to the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for the information. Here are some pics that I have so far. I have the head off, just need to disassemble it and see if a valve is bad. The cylinder bores look great, can still see the hone marks.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/...cket.com/albums/qq26/sparky34kv/100_1279.jpg http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/sparky34kv/100_1283.jpg
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/sparky34kv/100_1284.jpghttp://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/sparky34kv/100_1282.jpg
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/sparky34kv/KodakC533Pictures004.jpghttp://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/sparky34kv/KodakC533Pictures005.jpg
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/sparky34kv/KodakC533Pictures006.jpghttp://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/sparky34kv/KodakC533Pictures001.jpg
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/sparky34kv/KodakC533Pictures003.jpghttp://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/sparky34kv/KodakC533Pictures007.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I am looking at the pistons tomorrow. Someone in the machine shop at work said he's worked on these before and found alot of them turn out to be a cracked piston. I already have the car apart, so the oil pan gets dropped next and I'll push the pistons up and out from the block.
Does anyone know a better way to link pictures? I see mine didn't turn out as a link, so anyone interested has to copy and paste to the address bar to look at them. I will get pics of everything I can from here on out, just to help the next person going through this.
 
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