hi,i have a 91 LX 1.9 with auto trans. last week i pulled up to a stop sign then went to pull away and nothing! i havent had any probs. prior,no noise,no slipping,etc. i checked fluid,cables,electrical connections,etc. the cv joints look ok,no leaks from what i can see. the only thing that is happening different(besides no drive/reverse) is when car is in park or nuetral the engines sounds "bogged" down -like in gear? but when i shift into R-OD-D the engine idles normally? weird? i am thinking its the torque converter...anyone have any suggestions to try before i tear into this thing,thanx in advance.
91 LX automatic = nothing
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I am no expert, but thats what the tranny was doing in our 92 Escort - and pulling it out and rebuilding it was the fix. That happened (stopping at a stop sign and it wouldnt move forward without being pushed) to us, when the car had 190,000 miles on it.
How many miles are on yours?
Before I rebuilt the tranny, if the front wheels wrre off the ground, putting the tranny in the different gears made it seem to work normally - it just wouldnt pull the car with the wheels on the ground.
You might want to ensure that the shifter is still moving the lever on the top of the tranny properly. unfortunately you can see this very well unless the air filter and air inlet duct are out of the way. Its possible its not being allowed to actually be in one gear - if the shifter mechanism has gotten pushed a little bit forward or back.
How many miles are on yours?
Before I rebuilt the tranny, if the front wheels wrre off the ground, putting the tranny in the different gears made it seem to work normally - it just wouldnt pull the car with the wheels on the ground.
You might want to ensure that the shifter is still moving the lever on the top of the tranny properly. unfortunately you can see this very well unless the air filter and air inlet duct are out of the way. Its possible its not being allowed to actually be in one gear - if the shifter mechanism has gotten pushed a little bit forward or back.
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This is what I was thinking. On my 1995, I can see this just fine without removing the battery or air cleaner, but then again, I removed that resonstor thingy on the air intake long ago. The cable mentioned above can go bad or stretch. Essentially it's the same as a bicycle brake or shifter cable, which do stretch over time, then fray before breaking.denisond3 said:
How many miles are on the car?
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its over 100,000 , i don't thinks its the cable cause i have moved lever back and forth several times,while engine running,etc.. and the car is on jack-stands and i didn't see the tires move at all. what would be a quick/easy way to test the trans. pump? i still think its the converter....thanks for replies.
its over 100,000 , i don't thinks its the cable cause i have moved lever back and forth several times,while engine running,etc.. and the car is on jack-stands and i didn't see the tires move at all. what would be a quick/easy way to test the trans. pump? i still think its the converter....thanks for replies.
There are plugs on the tranny that can be removed (they have square heads) and a pressure gauge attached. Depending on which one you had connected to, it would show pressure when the engine was running and you were in one gear or another. This type of info is laid out in the OEM Ford Service Manual; but never having done it myself - I cant point out which one to use. Also, an adapter for a pressure gauge would be needed to thread into the hole where the plug came out.
Thats the only way I know to check out the tranny pump. On the F4EAT tranny, the pump is located in the iron casting at the end of the transmission furthest from the engine; but I wouldnt take that casting out unless I had the tranny on the bench for rebuilding.
If you undo one of the lines from the tranny to the radiator cooler, then starting the engine should result in fluid coming out - but you wouldnt know if the pump was working properly, just that it was working.
Thats the only way I know to check out the tranny pump. On the F4EAT tranny, the pump is located in the iron casting at the end of the transmission furthest from the engine; but I wouldnt take that casting out unless I had the tranny on the bench for rebuilding.
If you undo one of the lines from the tranny to the radiator cooler, then starting the engine should result in fluid coming out - but you wouldnt know if the pump was working properly, just that it was working.
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To expand upon what denisond3 said above, if I were actualy performing the transmission oil pump pressure tests (and I may be doing this sometime in the near future) I think you use a regular oil pump pressure gauge, like one of these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=92687
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=98949
along with the appropriate fitting.
The factory service does give good details on how to do things like the stall test and pressure tests. On this car I do believe that you can replace the just transmission oil pump without removing the transmission from the car. You would have to remove the front left wheel and at least one of the splash shields to get to it. You might want to try the transmission oil pump TSB fix first. TransmissionpartsUSA sells the kit cheaper than anyone! I'm probably going to be doing that this weekend, and maybe even doing a How-To, complete with pics.
I'm also curious as to exactly how amny miles on the transmission in question. I've got 180,000 on mine, and it's fine except first thing in the morning I have to put it into L to get it to engage. denisond3 got 193,000 out of one, which I believe is a record here.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=92687
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=98949
along with the appropriate fitting.
The factory service does give good details on how to do things like the stall test and pressure tests. On this car I do believe that you can replace the just transmission oil pump without removing the transmission from the car. You would have to remove the front left wheel and at least one of the splash shields to get to it. You might want to try the transmission oil pump TSB fix first. TransmissionpartsUSA sells the kit cheaper than anyone! I'm probably going to be doing that this weekend, and maybe even doing a How-To, complete with pics.
I'm also curious as to exactly how amny miles on the transmission in question. I've got 180,000 on mine, and it's fine except first thing in the morning I have to put it into L to get it to engage. denisond3 got 193,000 out of one, which I believe is a record here.
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And here is the How to:
http://www.feoa.net/modules.php?name=Fo ... ic&t=61690
When I put mine in, I also adjusted the cable between the throttle body and transmission to boost pressure, and between the two, it fixed the problem.
http://www.feoa.net/modules.php?name=Fo ... ic&t=61690
When I put mine in, I also adjusted the cable between the throttle body and transmission to boost pressure, and between the two, it fixed the problem.
the spring/valve didn't fix the problem,so i am going to tackle replacing the torque converter with a re-manufactured one. i have a question ,in the manual it states using a tool to keep the axle gears in place when removing/installing the trans. do i need this tool? or can i use a "make shift" piece? any info would be great,thanks.
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Broom handles are good for keeping the diff. together.
I agree a chunk of broom handle works fine and only has to be stuck in one side to keep the gears from moving around. Though I have never had those gears move out of place anyway.
Im not a professional, only an auto repair hobbyist, but.....
I have replaced torque converters in most of the auto trannies I have taken out over the years, and the tranny usually came out because the car would no longer move the car. Sometimes I replaced the tranny with a rebuilt, or with a junkyard unit & sometimes with one that I rebuilt myself. But I dont know whether I ever had a torque converter that was actually Bad.
On the last two cars where I took the auto tranny out (both are Escorts), the torque converter was the 'lock up' type, and both were high mileage cars (187k & 192k). Since the frictional surfaces that actually do the 'lock-up' are inaccesible inside the torque converter, I didnt care to put a maybe-almost-worn-out-torque-converter back into a car where I had spent the time to rebuild the transmission. In both of those cases it was obvious why the tranny no longer worked once I had them opened up: worn out 3-4 clutch pack (very common failure in these F4EAT trannies I was told), worn out 2-4 band, etc).
So what I am saying is that if I were going to replace a torque converter, I would not put the same transmssion back in - without either rebuilding it, buying a rebuilt, or getting a hopefully-okay junkyard unit.
In the two cases where I replaced a tranny in a car that was still (barely) driveable, I put the original torque converters back in. Both were our family's Dodge minivans, the t.c's. were not the lock up type. Both vehicles continue to run fine in the more than ten years since I put rebuilt transmissions into them, and both have over 250,000 miles on the original torque converters.
Auto trannies can be fairly easy to rebuild - IF - the failure is simply worn out frictional surfaces, with no broken gears, snapped shafts, galled bushings, etc. And since I dont have the jigs for adjusting the bearing preloading shims, I do that by guesswork or leave it as-is. I dont expect the F4EATs that I rebuilt to last another 200,000 miles, but since Im retired and dont have any long commute, they will likely outlast the rest of the car.
Im not a professional, only an auto repair hobbyist, but.....
I have replaced torque converters in most of the auto trannies I have taken out over the years, and the tranny usually came out because the car would no longer move the car. Sometimes I replaced the tranny with a rebuilt, or with a junkyard unit & sometimes with one that I rebuilt myself. But I dont know whether I ever had a torque converter that was actually Bad.
On the last two cars where I took the auto tranny out (both are Escorts), the torque converter was the 'lock up' type, and both were high mileage cars (187k & 192k). Since the frictional surfaces that actually do the 'lock-up' are inaccesible inside the torque converter, I didnt care to put a maybe-almost-worn-out-torque-converter back into a car where I had spent the time to rebuild the transmission. In both of those cases it was obvious why the tranny no longer worked once I had them opened up: worn out 3-4 clutch pack (very common failure in these F4EAT trannies I was told), worn out 2-4 band, etc).
So what I am saying is that if I were going to replace a torque converter, I would not put the same transmssion back in - without either rebuilding it, buying a rebuilt, or getting a hopefully-okay junkyard unit.
In the two cases where I replaced a tranny in a car that was still (barely) driveable, I put the original torque converters back in. Both were our family's Dodge minivans, the t.c's. were not the lock up type. Both vehicles continue to run fine in the more than ten years since I put rebuilt transmissions into them, and both have over 250,000 miles on the original torque converters.
Auto trannies can be fairly easy to rebuild - IF - the failure is simply worn out frictional surfaces, with no broken gears, snapped shafts, galled bushings, etc. And since I dont have the jigs for adjusting the bearing preloading shims, I do that by guesswork or leave it as-is. I dont expect the F4EATs that I rebuilt to last another 200,000 miles, but since Im retired and dont have any long commute, they will likely outlast the rest of the car.
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i agree i used to mess with cars alot,chevy's,dodge,ford. and never had a "torque converter prob." when the tranny died i just replace whole works with a salvage yard one. that is why in an earlier post if there was an easy way to check the trans. pump on the f4eat's? i am going to disconnect one of the lines from radiator today and see what that is doing. i maybe just might go with another trans. from salvage yard...thanks.
i agree i used to mess with cars alot,chevy's,dodge,ford. and never had a "torque converter prob." when the tranny died i just replace whole works with a salvage yard one. that is why in an earlier post if there was an easy way to check the trans. pump on the f4eat's? i am going to disconnect one of the lines from radiator today and see what that is doing. i maybe just might go with another trans. from salvage yard...thanks.
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Re: ->
Anyway, did you try changing the transmission filter? I just did mine on Saturday, and it's a real PIA, took me all day practically, but probably worth it. Both manglets had so much stuff on them that they looked like doughnuts. And 180,000 miles is probably too long to go for a filter.
As of this morning my transmission (still the original) is working just fine. All I did was the transmission pump valve fix, filter and fluid change, and I did adjust the cable between the throttle body and transmission to slightly increase pump pressure. If you haven't tried all three of these, do so. Yes, I'm trying to beat denisond3's recored of 193,000 miles on an ATX. I found a few people (with non-Escorts) on the internet who claim to have 250,000 miles or more on an original ATX.
The factory service manual shows you how to do this. You need a gauge (use an oil pressure gauge) and the right fittings.dougray said:
Anyway, did you try changing the transmission filter? I just did mine on Saturday, and it's a real PIA, took me all day practically, but probably worth it. Both manglets had so much stuff on them that they looked like doughnuts. And 180,000 miles is probably too long to go for a filter.
As of this morning my transmission (still the original) is working just fine. All I did was the transmission pump valve fix, filter and fluid change, and I did adjust the cable between the throttle body and transmission to slightly increase pump pressure. If you haven't tried all three of these, do so. Yes, I'm trying to beat denisond3's recored of 193,000 miles on an ATX. I found a few people (with non-Escorts) on the internet who claim to have 250,000 miles or more on an original ATX.
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That's not what the way the Factory Service manul says to check it. If it still has the original transmission filter in it, it's way overdue. I just did nine on Saturday, and at 180,500 miles. The visible parts of the filter definately had stuff in it, but the stuff on the bottom of the pan and attached to the magnets was more than enough to make me wish I had done it earlier.
And if that's the original ATX at 203K, you might have the record here.
And if that's the original ATX at 203K, you might have the record here.
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Did you have any black sludge coating the bottom of the pan, zzyzzx?
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