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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

My Escort (1991 1.9L) Haynes manual shows a Ignition Relay in the engine fuse block, but I have been unable to identify it (am I getting old?)... I see a cooling fan relay and other items (FI relay, Main, etc), but no ignition relay. Can someone tell me where it is, what it looks like? Also is there a starter relay??

I am a certified PC tech and whoever helps me will get the same treatment with his/her computer problem.

Thanks,

-Tex
 

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Tex said:
Why? How about just answering the question... Unless you don't know :idea:
well I don't have a manual in front of me so no I don't know. But I thought since I didn't know off the top of my head were it is located I could help try and troubleshoot the problem you think might be related to that. Especially since the Escort is known for a crappy ignition switch. But obviously you don't need the help.
 

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This is really dumb, but the power wire for the starter solenoid passes throught the cooling fan relay, don't ask me why. As you've found out, there are no relays marked 'starter.'

A few more detils on the problem and you could get some pretty sound advice :wink:

Matt 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Matt,

Thanks for answering. Yeah I found the cooling fan right off and thought it kinda weird (after reading the Haynes book cover to cover) that the starter goes through that! My book shows an ignition realy IN the fuse box is why I asked. It also shows two fan relays (slow and high speed). I assume that Haynes put those on the wiring diagram to may it a "one size fits all" wiring gram since the books covers '91-00. :wink:

Now my newest questions:

Is the 1993 Escort THAT much different from the '91? I have access to a Helm manual (with wiring) and was wondering (I would have to buy it).

My starter works when hooked direct to battery, and the ground is solid. The ignition switch shows NO abnormalities and lights up the instruments fine. Once I pop-start the car, it works well. So I am wondering what is left since there is no relay apparently. Could a section of the computer system be dead so that there is no excitement to the starter? I have seen this with Nissans where only the cooling fan circuit didn't excite the relay and EVER other aspect worked (just jumpered the box to run the fans when the engine was running instead of buying a new module).

One last thing... The computer WILL NOT send ANY codes to the check engine light or my meter when jumpered across ST0 and ST1.

Thanks for all the help, :idea:

Tex
 

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This sounds, more and more, like the Starter Clutch Position Switch I mentioned (and detailed how to diagnose/test it) in your previous post on this topic.

The next time you try to start the car, while the key is still being held in the "start" position (and, presumably, nothing is happening), push a little harder on the clutch pedal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
:idea: Can't I just jumper this switch to achieve the same effect? For now I have 'Hot-Wired' the starter... 8O I also got the computer to run its codes. It gives me a 67 which is either a Clutch Neutral Switch (NDS) Circuit Open, or Clutch Engage Switch (CES) Circuit Failure...

Like I asked before, I should be able to jump this switch and if it is bad, the car should start, right?

Thanks,

Tex
 

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Can't I just jumper this switch to achieve the same effect?
Well... yeah. ...but, then there'd be no constraint against engaging the starter while the car is in gear and the clutch is engaged. Poses a safety hazard...

The whole switch assembly is not that expensive... and, the switches themselves are rarely the problem; usually it's that little rubber actuator ($3.75 at your local Ford dealer) that's missing. Stick your head up under the dash (might bring along a flashlight ;) and take a look at it. The actuator is a little rubber "button" (for lack of a better word) that is (should be) attached to the clutch pedal arm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
THanks for the info. The switch is working properly (I checked it with my meter which is hard to do). I am to the point that I am beginning to believ it is a bad starter. I can hot-wire it and it will start as long as the key is on, of course (car-theft 101). I guess the 'moderator' might have a point that the ignition switch could be faulty, but it worked fine before the water incident, which did not get it wet (thankfully).

Curious though, when I turn the switch to start I hear a clicking in one of the silenoids or possibly the starter. I can't be sure until help arrives. AutoZone lists a starter silenoid for the '91 (and Haynes shows an Ignition selinoid). I just don't know where to find either (no decent book).

Anyone out there know??? I will ship a new copy of Norton System Works w/Antivirus 2003 (unregistered and unused) to the person who helps ME fix this problem.

Any Takers?

-Tex
 

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Hey my 93GT did the same thing.

One day it just wouldnt' start. But the key still kicked on the fuel pump and what-not. It is the solenoid at the back of the key lock. Their notorious like Matt said.

Anyhow, here's a quick fix I did, and actually liked it so much I kept it for theft resistance.

Get 10ga wire, go from the pos battery through a fuse, to a push button from Checker/Kraegan, then to run the wire to the start solenoid.

I mounted my button in the ashtray, but under the lip to pull it open. So I could turn the key to kick the fuel system on then push the button without opening the ashtray to start the car. It hid perfectly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks, but I don't believe this is the problem. I am getting 12V from the ignition switch to the engine fuse box... Someone out there should have this prints or a book on this model. Come on give me your best shot!!!

Tex
 

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I've spent about as much time as anyone else, if not more, under the dash with a DVOM....specially since I had to wire my S-AFC, AVC-R, turbo timer, and MSD 6AL-BTM up.

my ignition has the same prob and reads a 12v out. I can't verify it because I've never found a electrical schematic on the escort, but I'm pretty sure the ignition output isn't the 12v its actually a ground (-12v) signal that fires a relay that then provides a voltage to the starter solenoid.

Sounds hooky, but seriously...its the ignition switch at the back of the physical lock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I really appreciate it and I will keep this in mind. But since I had water damage and because the relay seems to just click, I will attempt to find the relay first. If it is good, then it is either the starter OR the switch. Can anyone verify the locale of the starter relay?

Thanks again,

-Tex
 

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If you're getting 12V up to the engine bay fuse box, and your starter works when you jump it, the only possilbe problem is a bad relay. A relay crapping out is not that uncommon. If you wanna test this out, grab the relay for your headlights from under the dash and swap it out. If it works that's your problem. By the way, when my ignition switch crapped out, I was still getting 12V at the box, but there wasn't enough current making it through the switch in the circuit to get the starter solenoid to kick over. Try the relay first though, it's way cheaper than a new switch :wink:

Matt 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Matt,

Great advice! But I have a small problem... The '91 Escort LX has 10 relays and none are marked. Where is the little bugger?

THanks,

-Tex
 

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Just reach up under the dash behind the interior fuse box. There's three of them there, just grab one. Off the top of my head, I believe it's a standard Bosch 5 prong relay, if you have one of those lying around. Keep picking relays off the car until you find one that fits.

Matt 8)
 

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Relays

Keep this in mind....If you need some of them fuses under the dash, I have a giant wiring harness pulled from a 92 GT that I can get some from for you.....cheap. I'll send you the whole wiring harness for that Nortons Anti Virus. Comes with everything from the firewall to the back of the car, minus the ecu (sold on ebay...but still not paid for). Let me know...
Nick
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Matt,

I believe you must be thinking about the 1.8 GT cause the only relays behind the fuse box are the horn, lights, wipers, & flashers...

Tex
 

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Um...

Those are the relay's I'm talking about.

Here's what I'm talking about.

Obviously the car dosn't start with the relay that's in there. Remove the relay from the lights. Turn your lights on and off, then listen and feel for the appropriate clicking relay. They're 4 pole relays, not five (I was under there today and thought I'd check. My mistake). We don't need the vehicles lights to work at exactly this moment. Remove the 'starter' relay from the engine compartment and replace it with the one you just stole from under the dash. Try and start the car. If it starts, it's a bad relay. If it dosn't, it's the ignition switch. If you want to double check the relay you removed from the engine bay, hook it up to the light circuit. If the lights work, again, bad ignition switch.

Good luck.

Matt 8)
 
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