[alyster]

Folks,

I have been trying to find a source for head bolts so that I
can put the head back on my car. The local Ford dealers
tell me that those are "obsolete" parts and that they no
longer have them.

Can anyone help? Is there a corresponding Mazda vehicle
that has the same 1.8 DOHC engine?

Thanks,
-kal

 

[coyote-x]

Protege. Or you could figure out what the thread on them is and just get some like that? Are head bolts special or are they just bolts? :?

 

[highanddry]

coyote-x (love the new avatar by the way):

Bolts are not bolts, especially bolts that mate steel to aluminum (eg cylinder head bolts).

If you've never had the pleasure of doing a head gasket job, you might not know that you want to be absolutely sure that you do things right the first time. Cast aluminum expands and contracts about three times as fast as cast carbon steel. To ensure a gasket can creep and expand properly to deal with this dilemma while still providing a positive seal, such fasteners are usually torque to yield (TTY) nowadays. This means the bolts, when properly torqued, are stretched to about 75-80% of their yield strength. You must not ever re-use TTY bolts, because they have been irreversibly deformed after a single use.

That's why our friend wants to find OEM-equivalent bolts. Even if the head bolts aren't TTY, it is wise to replace them anyway, considering the minor cost and the major effort involved with most head gasket jobs.

 

[James92Scort]

Call up ARP and order some custom headbolts.

ARP Head bolts/studs >>>> ANY OTHER brand. Period.

 

[alyster]

I don't want to buy bolts that cost more than a rebuilt head...
This is my cheap and reliable (formerly) car!

 

[Caymen]

You might want to consider Miata 1.8l bolts. They should be the same.


Tom

 

[James92Scort]

I don't want to buy bolts that cost more than a rebuilt head...
This is my cheap and reliable (formerly) car!

Do you want to be cheap, or do you want it to last? up to you. I put 5k into repairs on a car I bought for 1900. Sell the POS or repair it right...but whatever.

 

[highanddry]

Hey Alyster:

I'm from Canaduh.

I'll see if we're still carrying those bolts. We're a little bit behind the time compared to you Yanks. It sucks being a few years behind, except when it come to urban crime. Here, we still kick, punch and bite instead of simply bringing a modified semi-automatic glock to school to settle our differences.

I'll let you know what I find. Check back here Tuesday.

 

[alyster]

re: Canadian Bolts

Thanks! I'll check back to see what you found. Much appreciated.

re: Miata 1.8

That's what I thought too, but I wasn't sure that the Miata/Protege 1.8L uses the same head (and hence bolts).

re: Do you want to be cheap, or do you want it to last?

I've spent plenty maintaining this and all cars that I've owned, but that doesn't mean that I need to spend extra on parts that are not necessary to proper operation.

Thanks for the comments and ideas!

-kal

 

[coyote-x]

coyote-x (love the new avatar by the way):

Bolts are not bolts, especially bolts that mate steel to aluminum (eg cylinder head bolts).

If you've never had the pleasure of doing a head gasket job, you might not know that you want to be absolutely sure that you do things right the first time. Cast aluminum expands and contracts about three times as fast as cast carbon steel. To ensure a gasket can creep and expand properly to deal with this dilemma while still providing a positive seal, such fasteners are usually torque to yield (TTY) nowadays. This means the bolts, when properly torqued, are stretched to about 75-80% of their yield strength. You must not ever re-use TTY bolts, because they have been irreversibly deformed after a single use.

That's why our friend wants to find OEM-equivalent bolts. Even if the head bolts aren't TTY, it is wise to replace them anyway, considering the minor cost and the major effort involved with most head gasket jobs.

Oh, thanks. I... Didn't know that. Good thing you told me, too, because if I ever did a head gasket job... I could seriously fuck up my engine. 8O

And thanks, I like it too.

 

[highanddry]

alyster:

I've got some good news and some bad news.

First the bad. Sadly, the bolts are obsolete in Canada also. Sumbitch. The part number is E9JY6065A according to the stooge at Ford with whom I spoke. More bad news - Ford can't cross-reference to Mazda's parts and similarly, Mazada can't cross-reference to Ford's parts. This is what we call organizational dysfunction.

The guy I talked to at Ford didn't sound too bright. The guy at Mazda seemed noticeably more intelligent. Mazda dude suggested that the 1.8L Miata bolts are likely not the same but he thought there was a chance that one of the Protege's might use the same bolt. However, without a reliable cross-reference, I'd be nervous about taking this gamble. Mazda dude also suggested to me that even having complete bolt dimensions may not be sufficient in finding a match with a Mazda vehicle.

Sounds pretty grim doesn't it?

Now the good news. There are three Ford dealers in Canada that each have 10 of the 1.8 L DOHC cylinder head bolts (ie one set each). I've got phone numbers for the dealers is you want them. One dealer is French; I wouldn't order from them, since the additional language barrier is all you need on top of this little problem. The dealers can all ship 'em to you I'm sure. However, by the time you've paid for the bolt price (not sure what the price is) and shipping & handling, you might re-think the aftermarket suggestion by James. Maybe one of the US dealers still has a set cached somewhere too that a local dealer can locate for you.

You could snap up all three Canadian sets of bolts; then you've cornered the market. You could probably then pawn 'em off for like $50 each on E-Bay or something. There's always money to be made somewhere.

This reminds me of when I had to replace the self-adjusters on my rear drum brakes - there was one set in Canada and they had to come from all the way across the country.

Let me know if you want those dealer phone numbers. Good luck, eh.

 

[James92Scort]

Or he could just call up ARP and ask for a set, if they don't have any they can make them for him.

 

[alyster]

Success! I managed to find a dealership in Utah that had
old stock of the head bolts. Whew!!

I'm tempted to buy one Miata headbolt to see if they are
the same...

I also talked to the ARP guys and they would have to make
custom bolts/studs -- they don't have a set for the 1.8L engine.

Now I can take care of my rings and move forward to reinstall
the head and hopefully get the engine going again.

Thank you all for your help and comments.

 

[ibri]

When I did my head gasket I used ARP head studs for the Miata 1.6. Since it's the same basic block, all the holes are in the same place and the threads are the same size and spacing. The studs would have worked well had I torqued them correctly (something didnt' quite click when I hand tightened the studs and torqued the nuts over them that I should maybe check to make sure nothing would turn) but I would up blowing the head gasket again (go figure). So yes, bolts/studs from a Miata will work.

 

[93DLEGT]

im suprized that mazda cant cross reference, when i got a new fan temp. sensor switch, i went to ford and mazda and got prices, mazda was cheaper and he even looked it up under an escort gt. The guys at ford are dumb when your not talking about your mustang, focus, taurus, and that kind of thing. Sometimes i wonder if they even know that probes and escorts are pretty much mazda?