1.9 HO cam, will it fit into a 2.0L SPI? | Page 2 | Ford Escort Owners Association (FEOA)
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1.9 HO cam, will it fit into a 2.0L SPI?

Discussion in 'Engine Tuning' started by Adlorin, Oct 22, 2007.

  1. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress New Member

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    if you'd quit being an insulting arse maybe id take the time to re-read your losts instead of having to retaliate against your assinine comments.

    the HO cam will cause batch fire injection because of the lack of a cam postion signal.. if you unplug the cam sensor, or lose the trigger signal, the ECM freaks and goes into batch fire mode.. happened when i replaced the engine in my 95.

    given the differences between the CFI and HO 1.9s, which is minimal, the gains i think you'd see from swapping the cam wont make you happy.

    the HO had 18hp over the CFI, given the gains we see on SEFI engines from adding the HO header, and taking into acct. the MPFI and more efficient cyl. head....a 5-8hp gain would be surprising.

    just sayin'.. as someone who has already been down the cam swappage road before.. i think youd be happier with a hotter cam than even the HO.

    sadly all my petabytes of cam profile data is on my other computer.. which is loaned out at the moment. otherwise i could give you abotu 4 different grind profiles that would suit you.

    i'll see if i cant dig them up.
  2. Jeffescortlx

    Jeffescortlx FEOA Member

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    Jason's right, no cam sensor signal, no SEFI = loss of efficiency and power.
  3. UnexplodedCow

    UnexplodedCow FEOA Member

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    Question: The CFI 1st gens had the same head and cam as 2nd gen SEFI 1.9's....yet the CFI was rated for 2 hp more, when using a distributor as well. Why is that? The 88.5-90 1.9HO with roller cam were rated for 110 hp, using batch fire EFI, and distributor. But that opens up another ball of wax, since the HO was hemi, and CFI/SEFI/SPI are all lean burn heads. To continue, isn't the cam sensor just for firing of the EDIS system, or am I totally off on this?

    Also, there will be virtually no wear on roller cam lobes. I checked mine with 132k on it before I reused it, and it was at specification, so I used it. 24k miles later it's still good.

    Note: There are piston shape, combustion chamber size and shape, valve size, cam lobe lift/duration, intake port and manifold bolt pattern, and thermostat outlet size differences between CFI and HO heads of the 88.5-90 years. Hardly a few minor differences. And 88.5-90 CFI engines were 90 [email protected] 4600 rpm and 106 tq @ 3400, 20 HP less than roller cam HO's (110 @ 5400 rpm and 115 tq @ 4200), or at least that's what Ford and Chilton state. Non-roller engines were rated for 108hp @ 5200, and 114 @ 4000, so there is a slight difference between roller and non roller cam engines.

    Since it's roller cam, why not have yours reground instead? It should last a long time due to roller lifters. That way you can get the kind of cam lift and duration you like, which will outperform the HO cam. But the lift of the HO cam is pretty much all that's required for the valve size. If I remember, opening the valve beyond 1/3 of the head diameter gives negligible gains, whereas the duration, overlap, and such give more performance gains.

    1Low, I have a bare '81 and complete '83 1.6 heads. I measured the flat lifters vs. my '90 rollers one day, a while ago, and there is no difference in length or diameter. Mainly to use roller lifters in a non-roller head would require machining lands for the retainers, and then possibly regrinding a 1.6 cam to make steeper ramps and take advantage of the rollers. I considered doing this about a year ago, since the 1.6 has huge exhaust ports, and would require little porting to equal an HO head. Plus, 1.6 cams are easy to find, especially from the UK, including high rev and turbo applications.
  4. 1lowscort

    1lowscort FEOA Member

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    yea, i just bought an EXP turbo head with bigger valves and bigger exhaust ports, however they have smaller intake ports(wtf?). I wasnt sure on the length deal, but i know that mustang roller lifters are a little longer than the flat tappets. I haven't figured out yet why the cfi has more power the the sefi either, because in all reality, the sefi should have quite a lot more power. it should be pretty close to equal a HO, but it isn't.
  5. UnexplodedCow

    UnexplodedCow FEOA Member

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    Maybe it's due to the small CFI size valves, CFI style cam, and who knows....maybe, somehow the intake is more restrictive (thought I doubt it) than the HO. The CFI throttle body isn't exactly huge, but the intake is so short, maybe it makes up for TB size with short runners, so gas speed remains the same as a larger TB with longer runners. That's the only thing that remotely makes sense to me.
    The larger valves are aftermarket? 'cause I think stock turbo and N/A heads had the same valves. Yes, 1.6 heads had slightly smaller intake ports, but had plenty of space to port them out. The exhaust ports are pretty much gasket matched.
  6. 1lowscort

    1lowscort FEOA Member

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    nope, the valves are larger than the HO head
  7. jet-lee

    jet-lee Guest

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    If you had read my posts in the first place, no insults would've been thrown.

    How is cam position signaled? I've seen how a '99 Taurus works, but not taken apart my personal car, yet. Could the HO not be modified to work?

    How much did your cam(s) cost you from Crane?

    Why does the engine idle so roughly in batch fire but once rpm's are up it feels ok? Yes, I've run the car(barely) without the cam sensor plugged in (by mistake). If it's running rich, why does it not lean itself out? Does that mean the cam sensor controls something else as well?

    Don't know if you, personally, can answer those last few, but there they are for anyone that wants to chime in.
  8. celery952

    celery952 FEOA Member

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    wouldnt it be easier to try it yourself, rather than act like your not a homo and everyone else is. obviously no one thinks its a good idea so stop asking them for help and try it out. thats pretty easy. then...and only then can you be the only one who isnt a homo
  9. jet-lee

    jet-lee Guest

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    Did you pass reading comprehension in elementary school?

    My SPI is my daily driver. I'm looking for information from people who have an SPI cam sitting around, or have an extra engine they've tried this on. Why take my daily driver apart when someone with an extra engine may have already tried this and can say why it won't work.

    Kind of like 1lowscort comparing the flat tappet lifters and cam versus the roller version, and has first hand experience of what happens when you mix and match. Or PonyExpress's experience with cam profiles and having dealt with Crane Cams in the past, for a comparison of gain.

    Pony gave good reason for assuming 7-8hp gain (at best), required some probing, but reason none-the-less.

    How about you stop posting in technical threads if you have nothing technical to contribute, be it questions or answers?

    K, THX, BYE.
  10. UnexplodedCow

    UnexplodedCow FEOA Member

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    Are you speaking of the 2.0 SPI? I've had to work on a 1.9 SEFI head, and it had the same valve sizes as my CFI...which are notably smaller than the HO valves. The intake valve is slightly larger than the HO exhaust valve.
  11. 1lowscort

    1lowscort FEOA Member

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    no, im talking about the 1.6 head that I bought.
  12. 1lowscort

    1lowscort FEOA Member

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    no, im talking about the 1.6 head that I bought.
  13. UnexplodedCow

    UnexplodedCow FEOA Member

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    Has the head been rebuilt, possibly? I know UK 1.6 heads that are modified sometimes use 1mm and .75mm larger valves on intake and exhaust.
  14. celery952

    celery952 FEOA Member

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    im just saying that your getting pissed that people dont have the answers your looking for. and I dont care if someone misread you. Dont tell me just because I dont have anything technical to contribute on this subject that Im an idiot because I work on ford for a living. I just chimed in because you were getting ignorant with 2 people who are smarter than I am, and they are the last ones we need driven from this website.



    anyhow I just came to the realization that I am argueing over the internet, so end of story
  15. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress New Member

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    part of the reason the SEFI makes crap-tastic power is for sure the small valve sizing. I was under the impression, again all my numbers are on the other 'puter... that the SEFI has even smaller valves as the CFI.. which i thought were the same size as the HO (both being smaller than the 1.6 turbo).

    other thing.. i think its been pretty well decided that the 1.6l has smaller cam journals ...making transplanting it into a 1.9 difficult/impossible.

    I got my crane cam second-hand new from a member of the old escort forum, paid around $150 or so. bought some surplus roller lifters, NIB from zxtuner and had the head worked on: pocket porting the chambers, porting the inlet and exhaust, valve grinds, the works.

    all in all cleaning up the nasty castings in the head added immense power to the car. easily brings it up near if not at the power lvl of the HO.
  16. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress New Member

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    oh, and about the cam sensor. its triggered by a small bar press fit to the cam, magnetic interrupt.

    when the car runs in batch mode, it doesnt necessarily, nor should it, run rough... it will run a bit richer, but only on 1 to 2 cyls at any time.. so there is very little for the ecm to adjust for.

    however it is enough of a difference to hurt MPG and overall power in the big scheme of things.
  17. UnexplodedCow

    UnexplodedCow FEOA Member

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    Nopers, CFI and SEFI have the same valve and combustion chamber sizes.
  18. ian_95lx

    ian_95lx FEOA Member

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    i missed this for a while. but actually the flat tappet are longer. thats why i had to grind down the lifter bores on the 85 1/2 carb head i put on my 95 to fit the roller cam and lifters
  19. UnexplodedCow

    UnexplodedCow FEOA Member

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    The roller lifters require a retainer, the flat tappets don't. The two lifters are physically the same height, but it's the need for the retainer that makes the roller lifter seem shorter, which is why you had to mill down the lifter bores, otherwise your roller lifters would've turned in their bores and ground down the cam.
  20. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress New Member

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    all of the data sheets i have seen show the CFI and HO engines to have identical valve sizes.. the SEFI smaller than those two, and the SPI the largest of them all.

    1.9 CFI/HO 1.652/1.459 inlet/exhaust
    1.9 SEFI 1.534/1.338
    2.0 SPI 1.738/1.456

    however i do agree the CFI and SEFI to have the same combustion chamber dimensions.

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