Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: General Swap info, READ THIS FIRST NOOBS!!
This thread is written in an attempt to cut down on the amount of engine swap questions we get. Hopefully, this will get stickied. This is by NO stetch of the imagination a complete How to, nor did I intend for it to be. This is a simple outline for what is known to work, and what is known not to. Before posting another post about swapping ____ into _____ chassis, read this thread first!!! Chances are Ive answered your question. If you post anyway before reading ALL of this thread, be prepared to get flamed!
Now, for starters, asking the question “What engine will swap into my ____ model year escort?” is a very stupid question…
ANY engine will work in ANY car, it’s simply a matter of how much work you want to do, how deep your budget is, and how much fabrication skill you have.
Now, the BETTER question to ask is ”What engine bolts in, or nearly bolts into my____ model year escort?”
The first part to answering this question is defining it. By nearly bolts in, or bolts in, I’m assuming that engine mounts do not have to be fabricated, that they can be swapped from another car, or that the factory mounts can be used.
The second part to defining this question is to realize there are three different escort generations:
Escort Generations:
1St Gen 1984-1990
2nd Gen 1991-1996
3rd Gen 1997-2004
Now, the First gen is 100% ford. The second and third generations are of Mazda chassis, and sometimes Mazda engine, making them between 50 and 100% Mazda.
Because of this fact, NO parts from the first gen are interchangeable with parts from the second and third generations.
Now, parts from the second gen ARE interchangeable with the third gen,and vice versa. Some swap more easily then others. Common sense says body panels are not easily swapped, but, chassis components are a direct bolt in.
Because the engine is a part of the chassis, this means that all the engines from the third and second gens WILL swap between the two generations.
HOWEVER, some swaps are more difficult then others, and some are illegal, such as taking a 1991 GT engine and sticking it into a 2003 ZX2 chassis. It is illegal to swap an older engine into a newer chassis.
Engines
First generation chassis
The engine from the first gen: turbo, 1.9, 1.9 HO will all swap through the different trim levels. Some take more work then others, and not being a 1st gen guy, I cant give exact details.
Also, the 3.0 V6, and the 2.3 turbo engines have been known to fit into the first gen chassis, but are more work. They involve some motor mount fabrication, oil pan modification, but they do BOLT UP to the stock transmission.
Second Generation Chassis
This is by far the most popular generation chassis. Three trim levels were built for this body:
Pony, LX
The pony and LX are the most common, accounting for over 90% of the cars built. They share the same 88 HP SOHC 1.9. This is NOT the same engine as the first gen. There are major engine management differences the prohibit this engine from interchanging with the first gen, and vice versa. This engine is 100% ford, and is called the CVH engine. IT has a large following in Europe, and most of their performance parts for their engines (parts such as turbo manifolds) will bolt directly to our engines with a few minor differences.
The Third generation has a variation of this engine also, the SPI engine. SPI stands for “Split Port Induction” this is due to its split, dual runner intake manifold system, and other details that net it 110 HP. This engine WILL BOLT into a second generation, with a few minor details.
These details are: There has to be an RPM controller for the split ports, and the clutch and flywheel have to be 1.9L to use a 1.9 Tranny. If using a 2.0 tranny, the clutch, flywheel, and axles have to be from a 2.0 car. For more information, see:
The question of putting an SPI top end on a 1.9 Bottom end has be discussed, and tried. The net result is a better flowing head with a drastic drop in static compression due to the 1.9 being flat top piston and the 2.0 being domed. This is great for high boost turbocharging, but not suitable for naturally aspirated systems.
The GT engine will also swap into a Pony or LX, but the entire driveline, all the way to the hubs has to be swapped also, and the wiring harness also has to be swapped from LX to GT. Basically, take an entire GT parts car, and then anything that does not look the same as an LX has to be swapped. This swap is intensive, and finding a running GT car would be much simpler and probably more cost effective.
Other possible swaps are the 2.0 Zetec from a 3rd gen, but this swap is also extremely labor intensive, and the person performing the swap must have intimate knowledge of the process. It has been done, but only a few times.
THE ZETEC FROM THE FOCUS IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT BLOCK AND WILL NOT BOLT INTO AN ESCORT!!!!!!
GT
The GT variation of the second gen uses a Mazda 1.8 DOHC engine. This makes the car 100% Mazda. Because of this fact, Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) engines will BOLT IN in its place.
A popular swap is the JDM GTX engine. It is a turbocharged version of the 1.8 DOHC that comes in the GT. It bolts right in, and the ECU can be swapped with a Japanese BP26 ecu to make the engine run properly.
Another engine is the GTR engine. Same engine, only on steroids. These engines are rare, and expensive, and require standalone engine management to run properly. The bottom end (rods, crank pistons) are forged, allowing it to withstand larger power levels. The GTX makes approximately 180 hp, and the GTR 220. These numbers are for stock output, and can be increased quite a bit.
Other Second gen swaps
Any engine can be put into the second gen, however these swaps listed are the most common swaps. Other swaps are: JDM 2.5L KLZE V6, and the probe V6.
The KLZE is the same engine as the probe engine, only higher output. This swap is intensive, and requires a V6 MX3 parts car, and possibly a probe V6 parts car to be done correctly.
Other contemplated swaps are: contour SVT, UK Cosworth Escort, Probe 4 cyl, Taurus V6.
To my knowledge, none of these swaps have been attempted/ completed.
Third Generation
Let me start this off by saying:
THE ZETEC FROM THE FOCUS IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT BLOCK AND WILL NOT BOLT INTO AN ESCORT!!!!!!
Now, the ESCORT Zetec will bolt in place of the 2.0 SPI, but like the LX-GT swap, a wole parts car is advisable.
A GT engine from a second gen will work given a parts car, and enough effort, but will not be road legal due to putting an older engine into a newer chassis.
Joined: Dec 03, 2005 Posts: 881 Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: General Swap info, READ THIS FIRST NOOBS!!
Josh_LX wrote:
HOWEVER, some swaps are more difficult then others, and some are illegal, such as taking a 1991 GT engine and sticking it into a 2003 ZX2 chassis. It is illegal to swap an older engine into a newer chassis.
Really?! Down here in Texas they don't give a ****. As long as it passes the emmisions test, they'll put a sticker on it. If it doesn't pass, I just have a y-pipe put on like duals, make it smaller on that connection and tell them to test off that pipe. Easy way to pass. Exhaust takes the path of least resistance. They don't care as long as they get your $39.50. I should also mention that they get the $39.50 pass or fail. Where are you at that regulates that strongly?
_________________
jasoncsescort Paying Member
Joined: Nov 23, 2005 Posts: 436 Location: Vancouver,Wa
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject:
alot of cars went to obd II in 95-96 somewhere around there so for those cars alot of states don't even check what comes out of the tailpipe they just plug into the computer and check for codes if you have no, or haven't had any check engine light you pass so when you put an older engine into a newer car you have to play around to try to fake out the obdII stuff anyway california,on older cars at least, you had to pass a visual inspection before they checked for tail pipe emmissions and if you didn't pass the visual you didn't pass so you couldn't get your tags and when I left there,about 12 years ago, it cost $70. bucks for the test and another 15 if you passed (Fn california) nothing against califonians
_________________ well found new car (sorry its not an escort) a 90 protege ALL WHEEL DRIVE just begging for my BPT
Tracer-X Paying Member
Joined: Sep 13, 2004 Posts: 1262 Location: Tacoma, WA
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject:
jasoncsescort wrote:
alot of cars went to obd II in 95-96 somewhere around there so for those cars alot of states don't even check what comes out of the tailpipe they just plug into the computer and check for codes if you have no, or haven't had any check engine light you pass so when you put an older engine into a newer car you have to play around to try to fake out the obdII stuff anyway california,on older cars at least, you had to pass a visual inspection before they checked for tail pipe emmissions and if you didn't pass the visual you didn't pass so you couldn't get your tags and when I left there,about 12 years ago, it cost $70. bucks for the test and another 15 if you passed (Fn california) nothing against califonians
Ouch, that's harsh!
_________________
marclar wrote:
trust me i know everything there is to konw...
Trencher Paying Member
Joined: Dec 03, 2005 Posts: 881 Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject:
jasoncsescort wrote:
alot of cars went to obd II in 95-96 somewhere around there so for those cars alot of states don't even check what comes out of the tailpipe they just plug into the computer and check for codes if you have no, or haven't had any check engine light you pass so when you put an older engine into a newer car you have to play around to try to fake out the obdII stuff anyway california,on older cars at least, you had to pass a visual inspection before they checked for tail pipe emmissions and if you didn't pass the visual you didn't pass so you couldn't get your tags and when I left there,about 12 years ago, it cost $70. bucks for the test and another 15 if you passed (Fn california) nothing against califonians
So I could just hook up my Determinator and blow out the codes right before an inspection. That's a good piece of information to have. Useless for my scort, but handy for my blazer. Here in Texas 96 or newer is OBD testing. My wife always gets it inspected, but as with most chevy's it falling apart. I'm sure it won't pass it's next inspection. But with this I can get away without having to fix the POS. And to think I only have $5000 more to go until it's paid off. Thanks for helping me get the idea.
Update: I just realized I posted off topic, and already hit the submit button. Sorry.
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jasoncsescort Paying Member
Joined: Nov 23, 2005 Posts: 436 Location: Vancouver,Wa
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject:
actually you have to watch doing that as well bcause obdII also remembers how long it has been since a check engine light has been on so when you have the inspection they're computer will read this and decide if there is enough miles on it since a code was cleared also if it is a bad enough code and you don't fix the problem it will probably show up as pending or give you the cel before you even get it tested
_________________ well found new car (sorry its not an escort) a 90 protege ALL WHEEL DRIVE just begging for my BPT
mikeflys1
Joined: Nov 17, 2004 Posts: 520 Location: New Milford, CT
Joined: Mar 31, 2003 Posts: 8248 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:13 am Post subject: Re: General Swap info, READ THIS FIRST NOOBS!!
Josh_LX wrote:
THE ZETEC FROM THE FOCUS IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT BLOCK AND WILL NOT BOLT INTO AN ESCORT!!!!!!
Good info, now we have a place to send noObs.
But technically all the Zetec blocks are the same. It's the Focus engine bay thats different from the Esocrt. A Zetec from a Focus will have completely different engine mount locations then one of a Zx2.
ok, ok... but still, it wont bolt into the escort, so I was mostly correct.
_________________
Jeffescortlx Moderator
Joined: Mar 31, 2003 Posts: 8248 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject:
Josh_LX wrote:
ok, ok... but still, it wont bolt into the escort, so I was mostly correct.
Well it might be possible to bolt up a Zx2 mount to the Focus Zetec, but you would still need all of the Zx2 accessories, brackets pumps ect. to fit and work in a Escort engine bay, so that why it's best just to get an entire complete Zx2 engine instead of messing around with a Zx3 motor. Plus the Zx2 cams are better anyways.
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:40 am Post subject: Re: General Swap info, READ THIS FIRST NOOBS!!
Trencher wrote:
Josh_LX wrote:
HOWEVER, some swaps are more difficult then others, and some are illegal, such as taking a 1991 GT engine and sticking it into a 2003 ZX2 chassis. It is illegal to swap an older engine into a newer chassis.
Really?! Down here in Texas they don't give a ****. As long as it passes the emmisions test, they'll put a sticker on it. If it doesn't pass, I just have a y-pipe put on like duals, make it smaller on that connection and tell them to test off that pipe. Easy way to pass. Exhaust takes the path of least resistance. They don't care as long as they get your $39.50. I should also mention that they get the $39.50 pass or fail. Where are you at that regulates that strongly?
Regardless of if anyone cares, it's still illegal. It's a national law about swapping an older engine into a newer chassis.
Trencher Paying Member
Joined: Dec 03, 2005 Posts: 881 Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject:
little_goblinman wrote:
Trencher wrote:
Josh_LX wrote:
HOWEVER, some swaps are more difficult then others, and some are illegal, such as taking a 1991 GT engine and sticking it into a 2003 ZX2 chassis. It is illegal to swap an older engine into a newer chassis.
Really?! Down here in Texas they don't give a ****. As long as it passes the emmisions test, they'll put a sticker on it. If it doesn't pass, I just have a y-pipe put on like duals, make it smaller on that connection and tell them to test off that pipe. Easy way to pass. Exhaust takes the path of least resistance. They don't care as long as they get your $39.50. I should also mention that they get the $39.50 pass or fail. Where are you at that regulates that strongly?
Regardless of if anyone cares, it's still illegal. It's a national law about swapping an older engine into a newer chassis.
I'm not trying to start an argument over this (I know this will just blow up), but where is this information at? I did state inspections for 6 years, and never heard this rule. I'm not denying that it's probably true (it sounds very EPA), I just can't find any documents in my stuff saying such a thing (20 year old documents). This would also be a rule that would be imposssible to enforce. For a couple of reasons.
The time that would be wasted trying to confirm validity of an engine.
Another example if I have a 84 Chevy POS V8, and I buy a rebuilt engine. That engine could have come any previous year or later who's to say(or care).
If an inspection station actually checked for that kind of stuff and if they turned down enough people their reputation would be that of "stay away from nitpicker". Which in turn would put them out of business. There are stations around here that solely do inspections (I still have no idea how they make any money).
Most inspection stations around here are also lube centers. We didn't make money on inspections, it was the oil changes and car washs that made the cash. The inspection just got them in the door. Even more so now do they not make money since the emmisions enforcement. Seems I recall it was around 40K to 60K$ for the machine to test with. Alot of stations just quit providing the state inspection. That in turn had other impacts. Such as the bigger lube centers that still did inspections got overloaded with them. With the overload the customer didn't want to wait for the oil change or the car wash. Which in turn lead them to go somewhere else. However that somewhere else is gone, because they couldn't afford the machine. It's the reason I got out of the business.
HOWEVER, some swaps are more difficult then others, and some are illegal, such as taking a 1991 GT engine and sticking it into a 2003 ZX2 chassis. It is illegal to swap an older engine into a newer chassis.
Really?! Down here in Texas they don't give a ****. As long as it passes the emmisions test, they'll put a sticker on it. If it doesn't pass, I just have a y-pipe put on like duals, make it smaller on that connection and tell them to test off that pipe. Easy way to pass. Exhaust takes the path of least resistance. They don't care as long as they get your $39.50. I should also mention that they get the $39.50 pass or fail. Where are you at that regulates that strongly?
Regardless of if anyone cares, it's still illegal. It's a national law about swapping an older engine into a newer chassis.
I'm not trying to start an argument over this (I know this will just blow up), but where is this information at? I did state inspections for 6 years, and never heard this rule. I'm not denying that it's probably true (it sounds very EPA), I just can't find any documents in my stuff saying such a thing (20 year old documents). This would also be a rule that would be imposssible to enforce. For a couple of reasons.
The time that would be wasted trying to confirm validity of an engine.
Another example if I have a 84 Chevy POS V8, and I buy a rebuilt engine. That engine could have come any previous year or later who's to say(or care).
If an inspection station actually checked for that kind of stuff and if they turned down enough people their reputation would be that of "stay away from nitpicker". Which in turn would put them out of business. There are stations around here that solely do inspections (I still have no idea how they make any money).
Most inspection stations around here are also lube centers. We didn't make money on inspections, it was the oil changes and car washs that made the cash. The inspection just got them in the door. Even more so now do they not make money since the emmisions enforcement. Seems I recall it was around 40K to 60K$ for the machine to test with. Alot of stations just quit providing the state inspection. That in turn had other impacts. Such as the bigger lube centers that still did inspections got overloaded with them. With the overload the customer didn't want to wait for the oil change or the car wash. Which in turn lead them to go somewhere else. However that somewhere else is gone, because they couldn't afford the machine. It's the reason I got out of the business.
Well, I don't want this to blow up, but I would like to discuss this in a civil manner.
-Safety inspections and emissions inspections are totally different. I'm pretty sure you were doing safety inspections (could be wrong)
-It is totally impossible to reinforce, and may not be checked in emissions tests
-Just because it's illegal doesn't mean you'll get caught and you can't do it. It just means it's illegal.
What that document means is that the only legal engines in third gens are the zetec and SPI. Second gens can use the zetec, SPI, 1.9sefi, or BP engines. The gtx/bpt engine is not actually legal. The KL engines are NEVER emissions legal.
Even if your area does not have emissions tests, these laws are national. So even though nobody cares and you'll get away with it, it's still not legal. Just something to think about when you swap and engine.
Also, any car 25 or more years old is exempt from emissions laws. Too bad that doesn't apply to a single US escort.
Other then the no fault insurance thing, Michigan is a great state to live in because no one here cares about any of that stuff. If they did safety and emissions tests here half the cars on our roads here would be crushed.
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